Widowed dad wants to holiday with us, at same time as DSis and friend. WWYD?

[ConchFritter]

Name changer.

Due to DH job we live abroad, far away from family in hot sunny place where people love to come for holidays. DH and I have toddler. I miss my family and friends but have not been able to come back to UK since summer 2011 when toddler was a small baby. I feel sad that our families are missing out on our child's baby days - Skype is not the same. However Dad and sister came out together and visited us last winter.

DSis is now coming to stay again, this time over Christmas and into Jan. Also coming with her is DHs best friend, our child's godfather. Sister and he are great friends and both single in their 30s. They are both fantastic fun. They are really excited about coming on holiday and seeing us. In my sister's case this is the first holiday she has been on without Dad since Mum died. (she is a very kind daughter and dad doesn't like to holiday on his own).

Now dad has suddenly asked if he can come too. I've said no because we have no bed to put him in (am paying to put up my sister and DH friend in a friend's 2 bed house while she is away for two weeks). There is no chance of getting a hotel room now without paying hundreds of pounds a night.

But also I know how much my sister needs a proper holiday with someone her own age having fun. And I don't think it is fair on DH friend to have dad along on his holiday either. I have not said anything about this to dad but I was pathetically hoping he might realize its a bit unfair on DSis to always send her holidays with him - she needs her own life too.

I've offered to have dad another time and to pay for a room for him ( we have no spare room) but he can't come til late spring.

But I feel awful about dad not seeing any family at Christmas.
And dad has not got back to me since I told him we had no room. I worry that he feels depressed and abandoned.

He actually has lots of friends, a heaving social and work life and is a great host and lovely company, I know heaps of people owe him meals and would love to have him round over the days of the festive season.

WWYD?

Some of the guilt trippers on here are quite vile.

Your father is being completely unreasonable. Five years without a holiday without him? Your sister must be a saint. Time for her to get some personal space. Being widowed does not give him a trump card forever to hijack other people's plans.

Diddl, because the op dad wants to share the house with them.

He is not happy to stay at ops.

Plus the sister apparently shares every other holiday with him and it's not what dh's pal signed up for.

OP's dad does not sound like some poor, lonely widow whose family don't give a shit about him. He probably will feel like he's missing out and may be upset but I'm sure he can deal with it. He has a daughter who has holidayed with him for 5 years. He has an active social life. Sounds like he is much loved and cared for.
OP YANBU for wanting your sister and friend to have a holiday without him. Sounds like it would be much better if he came in the spring so you can focus on him and have him all to yourself.

"Diddl, because the op dad wants to share the house with them."

But he can´t-there´s no room, so it´s a non issue.

And he doesn´t want to stay with OP.

I wasn´t clear, sorry-I was thinking if he found some other accomodation would it be so awful.

He also might not be that bothered about going & has only thought about it because others are going.

I'd just throw it back into your dads hands, say something like "oh we would love to have you come and stay but it is so close to christmas and as you know it's high season. If you can find and pay for a hotel it would be lovely to have you, unfortunatly the place dsis and friend are staying is not bog enough for 3 people (friends wouldn't want someone sleeping on the sofa for 2 weeks?" that way you are giving him the chance to realise that it is a silly idea, maybe mention next Christmas you could all plan well in advance and have a family Christmas together.

And to your lovely sunny island ;)

Op said other accom fully booked/too expensive.

He's not alone for Xmas, he's working Xmas day so the guilt over that is a red herring.

Others tagging on to a pre arranged holiday does change the dynamics IMO.

I think you are getting a lot of harsh replies. I live overseas and would not want my parents and sibling to visit at the same time. Family visits are very precious to me, and when they come, I want them to myself.

Dad and sis see each other all the time, sis needs a break, you don't have room, dad doesnt want to stay with you, friend has to be considered... I think you need to stick to your original no.

Hopefully he will understand and come in the spring.

Well, if the father is not allowed or it's inconvenient accommodation-wise for him to visit, what about the OP and her family coming over here for Christmas 2013* and get the whole family together then?

And don't talk about accommodation then because I've done that. I travelled 300 miles (OK not abroad), stayed at a B&B and organised a village hall for 40 family to get together. All went down very well. It wasn't Christmas though. It was just a way of seeing everyone I wanted to see during a week's break and they all saw one another, too.

I think your Dad is being a bit U, TBH. He won't stay in the house with you because he does not want to be disturbed by his GC, but he has not offered to put his hand in his pocket and pay for a room for himself, he expects OP to pay for him at an expensive time of the year. Also, if you have booked accomodation for two people, would you even be allowed to suddenly bunk in a third person just like that? Holiday accomodation often has rules about numbers of occupants.

It seems that five years of holidaying with his young daughter has made him feel he is 'one of the gang' rather than a Grandad. Is that why he wants to hang out with his daughter and her friend? He is the one who needs to grow up, IMO.

YANBU but your dad is being rather unreasonable - I think it's shocking that he expects to come in on your Dsis's accommodation and boot one of them out onto a sofa AND to hang around with them in the daytime/evenings too - boundaries, anyone?

Please please don't ask your sister's friend if he would sleep on the sofa/allow your dad to stay with them - it is v. selfish of yr dad to even consider that as an option - if he wants to come that badly he can fork out for a room himself!

Am horrified at the guilt-tripping going on here. Your dad is BU. Stand firm and don't allow yourself to feel bad about it.

I can't believe how generous you are OP! Any chance we might be related? I'd love for you to pay for my holiday accommodation!

I was going to say YABU but you definitely aren't.

I can't see why you're being brought into it though, other than being the one who has to pay for accommodation (I'd knock that on the head, I'm tight though). Its your sister's hol, if your dad wants to go on holiday to the same place then let him, but he'd have to pay for himself and find his own entertainment, be that with your family or on his own.

Poor dad :(

YANBU to want to stick with the original plans.

This is not about Christmas as it will all be done and dusted by the time your DF gets there. This is about your DF wanting to use guilt-tripping techniques to weedle his way into someone else's holiday.

This is your DSis's holiday. Dont let your DF spoil it for her.

I say this having a widowed parent and having lived abroad for many years - so I do know something of this dynamic.

Ignore the rather nauseating, wobbly lipped martyrdom being displayed on this thread. You have to live with the reality.

Op - I think you have been given a really hard time on here and that you shouldn't feel guilty.

Your dad is the one who has moved the goal posts and you are being made to feel guilty. Your sister has planned this trip and saved up for it, why should she be made to compromise her plans now by having to accommodate your dad just because he has decided to rearrange his plans?

As for "poor dad" - he is not recently widowed, he has a network of friends and a good social life, he is working at Christmas" He had made plans before sister and now expects everyone to changes their plans to suit him. He even expects someone to give up a bed for him.

That sounds like selfish, controlling dad to me. Unfair to make his daughters feel guilty.

I think people need to stop projecting feelings onto the Dad.

1. He originally made other plans but "went off them".
2. He assumes the daughter and friend will be happy to share their accomodation and general holiday with him. To the point of giving up a bed for him.
3. He can go out another time and if he was that bothered he would stay with OP but actually won't because of his grandchild waking.

To be honest he is sounding rather blinkered. My widowed mother wouldnt dream of crashing a holiday with one of her grown up children and her friend like that. After 5 years I think it is time for him to stop expecting to share every holiday with his single daughter, I really do. Christmas or not.

OP I think you should stick to your guns. It's not that you don't love him but for everyone's sake things need to move on a bit I think. For his own as well. FWIW when my Dad died I moved back home for a couple of years to be with Mum but that situation ouldnt continue for ever and she needed to move on and so did I. These days I can hardly get hold of her due to her wild social life.

Loving all the sad faces here!

It is awkward but I'm with the OP. Her sister has gone on all these holidays with her dad & is now having her first break without her dad for years.

It isn't at Christmas, their dad has plans for Christmas itself, and Christmas is completely overblown by some people here.

He has got plenty of time to sort/reinstate plans for the holidays & can plan a much less stressful & enjoyable time with the OP in just a few months in the spring.

Completely agree with Katisha

It sounds like your sister deserves a break from your DF anyway.

When I first started reading this thread, I was feeling very sorry for the OP's dad. Then realised that I was projecting my own feelings onto him, being quite recently divorced and having spent my first Christmas last year entirely alone, with the children at their dad's and my DM having died.

I understand that the idea of a Christmas break without family can seem doable several months ahead of time and looms larger and larger and more dreadful as the time approaches. BUT, if he was really dreading the Christmas break away from his children that much it wouldn't be a problem to fall in with any plans already made, ie pay for his own expensive accommodation or put up with sharing with DGS and waking at 4.30am every morning!

On reflection, I don't feel YABU OP. He needs to put up with toddler disrupting his sleep, pay up for expensive hotel or resign himself to staying in the UK alone imo.

what a nightmare.

I think that if it had all been sorted and he was happy with working and other plans - but then changed his mind...then it's perfectly fair to say, "Dad, we're so sorry, we'd love you to come but it's simply not possible now, there is no accommodation at all. We will look forward to seeing you in Spring."

If he was prepared to happily stay with OP and muck in then maybe, but if he is prepared to make dsis give up her bed, then he's not quite as unselfish and lovely as it may seem.

Don't feel guilty-you have made the decision now and if I were you I would just get on with it. Your dad is a grown up-as is your sister quite frankly and it is not your responsibility to make either of them happy. There isn't any room-beds are allocated and you have done the best you can. Get on with having a lovely holiday, send your Dad something nice and have fun with him when he can come out. And don't feel guilty!

Yanbu. I am sure your dad will be just fine.

I understand how guilty you feel, I would feel guilty too, but he will be ok. It is a good thing really, as sometimes these things can become something of a tradition and you feel helpless to break it. He may end up doing something with friends that turns out to be very special! Doors shut windows & open type of thing. :)

Thanks again for all the thoughtful replies.
I talked to DH and we can put dad in our bed for a week if he really wants to come over for that week. We can't do anything about the household day starting at 4.30am and if dad stays he will have to muck in with the toddler being up and noisy. He really can't stay with DSis and DH's friend so that is that. If he comes he will have to think of himself of being based with my son and DH and me, and being around here, not joining in with sis and DH friend automatically on their beach days and nights out.

It's still a bit awkward tbh and it is unfair on DH who has taken time off work for this visit and been looking forward SO much to having his best mate over here lots and hanging out with him instead of hosting grandad. He misses his friend very much and does not have much fun as works so hard and no friends here.

But it is the best we can offer. As people said, Christmas with family means compromise.

If dad isn't up for it on those terms then spring it is.

Thanks again for replies

well done.

good shout.

Well done! Hopefully he'll see how much you've deliberated and will see sense and come in spring.

If he does come, can you also make it clear that DH willalso be spending time with his friend and explain that on this occasion it's not an "all muck in together" holiday with your sister and DH and so on.
It sounds like your Dad needs it spelling out a bit more.