To be disgusted by the criteria for free childcare for 2 year olds

[LowToleranceMamma]

So because I'm not 'poor' enough, I'm not entitled to childcare for my 2 year old, even though I am really struggling with PND and a baby. We can't afford to pay for it.

I can totally understand the feelings of wanting your children adopted. I went through this. Big time. I was going to call social services and have them take them both away. I thought it would be for the best. But I have come through this. They were really dark days and I'm not quite sure how I got through them.

You can get through this. Really. It's fucking hard and it feels like everything goes from shit to shitter and then some more shit. But you can find a hole and get out that shit.

Look at childminders in your area. See if you can get one for a couple of hours a week. Mine is £4.00 an hour. Somewhere you really can make a cut back to afford it and it will make things much better.

The HV doesn't have that power. She should be supportive of you, especially if she knows you are struggling but she can't have your children taken away.

The worst she can do is trigger a social services referral which infact may not be a bad thing as they could help ensure you get the support you need.

Please don't worry about them being taken away from you. The proffessionals are there to help you through a tough time, please take any help offered.

Is this the same DH that has been going to a mate's house for an hour after work before coming home to give you 'a break'. Is this the same DH who refuses to give you any money other than what you manage to earn through your self employment (whilst looking after a baby and toddler without support?) because he accuses you of being addicted to shopping.

Things have deteriorated a lot in the last couple of weeks since your previous posts when you were adamant that child care was out of the question to help with your situation. I really feel for you OP, you seem more detached from your children than ever. Please talk to someone. For whatever reason your DH is resentful of your position as a SAHM and is punishing you. You will not change his mindset so you will have to change yours. Time for some serious talking and/or action. Your children deserve it.

I have a 4yo DD3 and a 2yo DS, the 2yo exists to wind his sister up. My whole life involves taking things off him, pulling him off things, stopping him hitting things/breaking things/kicking things, he does nothing I tell him, he tantrums constantly, he batters his sister who then screams all the time. He drives me mad.

I find actually getting down and playing with them helps, you can micro manage the fights. Getting out is essential, I know it's hard, I get so stressed out at toddler groups as he usually ends up thumping someone. Get them put walking tires them out.

I really feel for you it is hard .

OP, I couldn't read and run. I was feeling like this with my DS1 and I didn't even have DS2 at the time, like you.

DS 1 started getting better, behaviour wise, nearer to 3 years of age. By then, he was good company LTM, my best little friend, and I didn't want to lose him to school. DS 2 is an entirely different matter: we never had the terrible two's, but he is now four and is an "evil genius". He has only done just over half a term and has had three orange cards (naughty warnings from school). Anyway, I am nattering now, trying to distract you from your pain.

The trouble is, hard word, or very hard work and 100% of your time, effort and energy where child rearing is concerned, is no guaruntee of success. That was the hardest part of parenting babies/toddlers for me. I was definitely not a natural and still am on prozac nearly ten years on from having DS1. This hard time will not last for ever. They will start to give you more back and make you laugh and smile.

I wish you well OP. Keep talking to us.

This book is brilliant: Siblings Without Rivalry: How to Help Your Children Live Together So You Can Live Too

And: How to Talk So Kids Listen

These really helped me in the dark days

Sorry you are having a really bad time. Please keep talking to us. Please listen to Mrs DeVere as well as she talks sense.

I work in a children's centre, and I think you should go to your local one at 9am tomorrow morning and ask for their help. If you turned up at ours you would be offered a cup of tea, a box of tissues, and as much support as we could offer you. I hope your local one is the same.

You need a health visitor. Ask the children's centre to support you with changing yours. Hopefully they will help you contact the health visitors mangers and get you assigned a new one. I think this is the most important thing that they should concentrate on.

This is a list of things my children's centre could help you with:
PND support group and CBT counselling with creches.
Priority for courses like First Aid which will give you a break and adult company while the kids are in a creche.
An outreach/support worker who can give you parenting support, help you get to the centre, go with you to appointments, refer you to homestart, and much more.

We co-ordinate the 2 year childcare offer as well. It's not my remit, so I'm not 100% sure, but in my area, currently the priority is for people on benefits plus other factors such as disabilities. I think this is purely because of the lack of quality childcare available rather than money, and we are looking at opening more pre-schools as we will need to expand the criteria next year.

OP my heart goes out to you.

PND sucks. It has no redeeming features and is compounded by the fact that whilst you are going through it you've got to care for small demanding children/child.

The only good thing about it is that it will pass and then, every day you don't feel as you do now you will be enjoying life all the more.

I know this sounds trite but things will get better. I had x4 DS under 5, was psychotic with the first two and suffered from 1.5yr long depressions each with the younger two. Life was living hell. I wanted DS's3 and 4 adopted at times and, if I hadn't had to look after the kids would have seriously considered ending my own life.

But there are specialist people out there who can help - perinatal psychiatrists and their teams. The GP can refer you. I was treated with drugs, CBT and care. My doctor was great, on my side and could see beyond the 'just sort yourself out, all you need is a brisk walk' attitude that many others (out of kindness and/or confusion) would show me.

One of the best things I learnt was that it is very easy to judge ourselves as bad mothers by making comparisons with others. If your chidren are fed and clothed then, at this point you ARE doing an OK job. Using the TV to give yourself a break is not a crime etc. It is so easy to beat yourself up and other mothers are not always the most supportive.

Good Luck and hang in there. I love my kids and feel I am as good a mum to them as I can be. I didn't used to feel that but now I know I was just wrong and very, very ill.

Op,
Im admitting my deepest darkest secret on a public forum in the hope it will help you,even if it gives you a modicum of hope it will be worth it...

I remember being where you are.
Except i decided i would kill my ds as he has SN & i couldn't bare the thought of him going into care. I was terrified of seeing him dead so i worked out how to do it so we both would die but i wouldn't actually see ds dead.
I was paranoid, thought ss was following me&watching my house.
I used to leave ds in house on his own,he was about 6 months old at the time.
I spent thousands of pounds on clothes. My Dd was 3 at the time,I would cry all day,i never took that poor child anywhere other then to drop her to nursery. I often wonder if she can remember this time,she's got a funny sort of personality,i can't help but think i contributed to it.

My dp had no idea any of this was going on. He would tell you i moaned alot or was miserable. Though i tried to talk to him.

Eventually i went to my G.P. I was prescribed AD. I spent 2yrs on them. I had a shitty H.V. She never got involved. I never took ds to clinic,only to G.P for jabs. No one else was involved,you sound like me. Even now the thought of taking help from outsiders is unthinkable.

I got better,at the time I didn't realise how ill i was. I have never spoken to anyone about having PND-this is the 1st time I've admitted how ill i was...7 years later.

When i read your posts it reminded me of the hideous isolation,dark,long scary days. So i might have posted this in vain but please go&see your G.p- how u feel is treatable. You sound, like how i felt. U& your dc deserve a decent quality of life&with a little help,its possible.

Take care of yourself.

Shelly I think you are v brave for admitting that, and well done for getting through it. I bet there are lots out there who relate to your experiences. Hope the op is still reading and knows she's not alone.

You need to go and see your GP as an emergency.

Tomorrow morning.

How able is your daughter to communicate with you? Have you tried asking her why she is frustrated? At two my son was able with a mixture of words, signs and gestures to generally get across what was bothering him. This has got easier as he's got older.

Remember its a vicious circle. She's being tetchy so you get stressed, so she picks up on your stress, and then you pick up on hers...

Sometimes in moments I feel like I am going to scream with rage, I put some music on, turn it up really loudly and insists DS does his silliest dance moves with me. It works. I go from wanting to cry to giggling at him, and not feeling like the world is quite so horrible, even just for a few minutes.

How are you this morning op?

No one is out to get you, please ask for help before you reach a crisis.

I haven't read the last 11 pages, as I'm trying to get ready for the day.
But if it hasn't been said: Go to your local children's centre, ask for the outreach worker and explain your predicament to them.

There are usually ways round the rules and the outreach worker should know how and wher to leverage.

Good luck!

Do they watch you closely for child abuse? I don't want to feel like people are breathing down my neck. Thats how I've always felt when I've sought help before.

No they do not look for child abuse unless there is child abuse going on which there isn't you are asking for help with your children nobody is forcing help on you, you do sound very low very negative and a little paranoid please speak to somebody today,

Weaker than most people. Incompetent. How can I expect him to work longer hours than me?

you are not weaker than most people you are ill

when I had PND i would phone my husband at work and demand he came home early of course he couldn't ,
I would then cry until he came home with dd in her bouncy chair and then go to bed every night at 7 pm because I thought he could do it better than me, I was convinced if anybody came into my house they would see how bad a mother I was and take my baby. I also contemplated suicide I thought my mum was plotting to take her I was such a mess,

I am not saying all that to say I was worse than you I am highlighting what a terrible Illness PND is please go today , you and your children matter your health is important you can and will get better with this illness it takes over every fibre of you , go get help tell somebody what you have told us , If your husband cant or won't understand seek support elsewhere at this moment in time you and your children are 10 times more important than he is,

Guys could you please read this email before I send it to DH. I've got a lot of points to make but the tone seems confrontational. I just don't know how to change it so it doesn't fall on deaf ears:

When I talk irrationally (adoption, social services), and you respond equally irrationally (leave us, go back to your mother); how is this support?

When you tell me to 'fuck off' and leave you all alone; when you say I should leave; and that all 3 of you would be better of without me; that I'm selfish...

• it devalues everything I do at home all day on my own. It sends the message that I'm despensable and all the childcare I've done since DD was born matters very little. How is this support?

When you fail to acknowledge that PND is real and makes women very ill; how is this support?

You say that the way the children are acting is normal, and that they are well behaved kids compared to most; If you truly believe this, how do you think they became 'well behaved kids'? Seeing as it's me they spend two-thirds of their time with, don't you think I have the greatest influence? And therefore, doesn't this fact suggest that I'm more than merely 'dispensible' and should 'fuck off'?

Have you rung the GP and tried to contact a Children's centre yet? If your DH isn?t very supportive or is struggling with coping and acknowledging your PND ? which I understand from friends isn?t uncommon ? might be a way of getting some help quicker ?

I don't know your DH or you or how you generally communicate - but that e-mail does read like an like an email that is going to immediately make him very defensive in response.

If it was me doing this to me DH I go along the lines:
-
I am being irrational in my talk because I am desperate for some help and support - it doesn't matter that you tell me the DC are well behaved I still fell very negative about everything and I feel I can't cope with them. Whatever you say isn?t making that go away.

I am not enjoying or choosing to behave like this ? the pnd is an illness.

I feel very undervalued as well which is helping.

I need more practical and emotional support from you and some outside help with the pnd. Please help me.

--

I'm not sure if that would work for you or not.

*Here's his point of view:

He works all day.

Then comes home and has to take over because I 'cant cope'.

So effectively, he works a longer shift than me, so I have no right to 'moan'.*

If he was ill he would take time off work. You are ill and still trying to look after 2 young children. You aren't weak at all but you need help and support, from your DH and from proffessionals.

Oops, bold thing didn't work

If you had broken both your legs, he would be having to take time off work and help you. The fact that your illness is invisible doesn't make it any less real.

I think you need to get some support for yourself, but also to get a professional to explain things to your H. Slightly different, but for years my parents thought I was just being a moody unreasonable bitch - it took someone who wasn't me explaining that I really couldn't help it to make them understand.

I think you are focussing on things with your DH at the expense of getting the professional help you need. I mean this in the kindest way possible- get that help first and then someone can help you communicate your needs to DH. Can you ring childrens centre today and ask to speak to someone ASAP?

Maybe your DD is throwing the tantrums because you are stuck in the house so much, it's a vicious cycle.

Try a new routine, time to get up (same every day but whatever you fancy) then breakfast, all dressed then outside activity even if it's just a walk to the park / shops / round the block / local toddlers / playdate at friends) every single day. After a while you will feel like your day has more purpose.

I had two under twos and no car and was starting to feel like I was going insane but a bit of structure to the day helps so much.

There is not enough money for all two year olds to be funded. In some areas low income families can access it. I don't get it although we have a low income / working tax credits but I am choosing to send mine when she is 2.5.

Having the older ones in school helps me though as it gives my day a bit of routine and I can now see my life would have been nicer if I'd done this when my older ones were little.

Perhaps even show him this thread. A thread full of posters, some who have had PND themselves, who think you need urgent help and support.

And yes, having PND can make caring for children much harder or even impossible. You do need support with this. If you were laid up in bed with a physical illness your DH would have to do more childcare.

PND is a real illness and it's not your fault.

Stop worrying about the health visitor. HV's see so many women in your predicament, and they won't take your kids because you are ill. They can't take children without reams of evidence being put to a court. The focus with your illness is treatment and support. There are even mother and baby units they can sent you too to treat PND. That's a last resort, though, as they will try and support you at home first. Like others have said, you may have to go through these services to get support.

sorry

I was rushing - obviously part of my post should have read.

I feel very undervalued as well which isn't helping.