to pretend that state school is not so bad...

[RichTeas]

We are in an area with no shortage of preps and indies; the state schools are not bad, but for us, definitely not the preferred option. Yet it looks like it's going to be state all the way through. So far DS (Y3) doesn't have any idea of the types of schools that exist, as we have never openly discussed it, but I expect soon he will be clued up enough to question the system he finds himself in. It feels disingenuous to fib that we're happy with just a state education (when we're not), yet we don't want him to grow up feeling he's missed out by over-egging the independents. I suppose it could be worse, he could be in private and then forced to come out, but the issues is the same I wonder how others explain this kind of mismatch...

In the interest of fairness, can I point out my children's (state) schools are gloriously diverse and the newest child in DD2's class is an Afghan asylum-seeker?

Yeah but why do people think it's ok to say "FFS cool car, couldn't imagine spending THAT much on a car" and that be ok, but it be acceptable to spend money on schooling and not expect people to accept that choice.

You can, MotherInferior. And you may get a prize

Private schools are a bit like cheating. How can you come through life thinking you have done well for yourself when your parents money has given you a head start?

People that go to the mainstream comps and do well are the only ones that have truly done well for themselves.

Cheating? Cheating what?

How is private schools cheating how ? our 2 local private schools follow the national carriculum and do the exams the same way as all the local state schools Unless they are getting rich parents to do the exams or 'the staff' then it is not cheating,

Curriculum* sorry spelling

achillea Cheating what?
So we have a little DD cheat and DS not a cheat from parents who worked very hard to get both of them where they are.

and I know parents who send their children to tutors for exams is that also cheating

I thought I would add a different perspective to this discussion. My DS started at Eton this September having been successful in getting a New Foundation Scholarship (these are for previously state educated boys). He loves it there and I am thrilled that he has at last found a school he is happy at. For me it has been about finding the a school that could give my DS the kind of challenging and stimulating learning environment that his natural academic abilities require.
I still have to pinch myself sometimes that he is there (and will be for the next 5 years) and has a full scholarship, as a single working Mum there was no way I could have afforded private education. We tried 2 state secondary schools and they just didn't provide a good learning environment. One of the biggest differences my DS has told me about is how he feels happy to talk to anyone without fear of being ridculed or bullied, that and being in classes where he is with others who want to learn as much as he does.
The downside is I miss him enormously but having him home for a week now and hearing about how much he is enjoying it makes it worth while.
There is no one size fits all solution for whether state or private education is better but I am very glad that I perservered with finding out about this scholarship.

I disagree Achillea, I went to a state school and had a huge head start from my parents being supportive and committed to education - I think that was probably more significant than the head start I would have got from private school. Other people have parents with contacts (the Millibands!), other people get a headstart in their career due to looks or money.
We are all the result of the varied package of disadvantages and advantages we are born to, and I don't see that private school is qualitatively different from any other type of advantage. What matters is what you make of it. You can go to private school and fuck it up, or you can go to private school and do better than all your classmates. And you can go to a crap private school and have to work harder to overcome your useless education than your friend at the mainstream comp where the subject they wanted to do happened to be taught well.

Does that mean ANY parental help is cheating? I don't get what we're cheating here.

I support my children educationally and they went to go to a state school

Cheating?

What about attending a good state school? Or having supportive parents? Or access to books?

Do I get extra points for going to a dire state school and having parents who left school at 15?

Thing is they did, like, you know, love me...so maybe that's cheating?

I have to agree with brycie here - much as I wish that there were no private schools (disclaimer: I come from Holland, which does not have them), I have said above that parental involvement is key. And parental involvement may come in the form of paying for private education. I would not go that route myself, not ever, not even if I won the Lottery, but I wouldn't dream of judging people who do.

I am very involved in my DDs' education. Every parents evening - I am so there. Homework - I don't agree with it in primary, but I make DD2 do it because that is what we signed up to when we put her in that school. Learning and life - we do all that middle class stuff - I still read to them every single night, and they are 9 and 11. I take them to the library. We make the most of our holidays - no, it isn't all stately homes, but there are lots of ways of learning in other settings than school. We talk about politics, current affairs, morals and ethics.

And there are a shedload of children out there who don't get this, and many of them will do less well than my DDs will. That's not fair, but life isn't fair.

The point I would make, however, is that it doesn't take private school to turn out a high-achieving, socially skilled adult at the end of it. Just good parents.

yzzyy well done to your DS and good luck to him.
I agree whole heartedly TunipTheVegemal no amount of money will ever compensate if there is no parental support, love and nurture in the first place, those are the important starters in life everything else is relative.

I am confused about cheating is it just the money aspect the paying of fees because a lot of parents pay for a lot of things when their kids go to state schools , what about parents who pay Uni fees is that also cheating or parents who support their teen children while they go onto further education is that cheating, because I am sure most parents 'cheat' at some point of their childrens lives,

I talk to my children and encourage them to read books. We have books in the house. Lots of children don't. Is it unfair on them? Are we cheating them of life chances because we do the best for our children?

Who is losing out in this cheating? Who are we cheating?

aargh - what I really really hate about debates like this is the 'oh you have to be minted to get your child to a private school and anyway I don't believe in private education we will just move to a naice house in a good state school area and pretend we're right on'. Maybe it's just my city but my nephew got a bursary to the excellent selective independant at the age of 7, despite my sister living in a run down council house, and stayed there until he was 18. With this in mind, I have spent the past year taking my dd (year 2, aged 6) to this same school, having her assessed, discussing bursaries, finding out we are entitled to one, looking at the school meeting the headteacher and realising, hey actually, I want her to go to this school, we are not rich but they will give her a fantastic education and she bloody well deserves it. She is deaf by the way, and her state school, whilst being one of the most 'middle class' schools in the entire city is still not doing enough for her, whereas the independant will look after her and make sure she fulfills her potential ( at parents evening tonight, at our trendy school, we were told she is already working at level 3 but they don't actually have a g & t register and actually her teacher doesn't believe in it...) if more champagne sodding socialists thought about the benefits of private education and looked into into properly then maybe they would realise there are options - it is about doing the best for your children. We can be a left wing and as trendy as we like but until 'people power' and 'marches' and pettions sort education out I will do what I want with my children. Gah. Rant over.

Oh Lord, I pay school fees and am hugely supportive and we have lots of books and I've even been known to speak to my DC in French...

I make Lance Armstrong look straight...

Oh Lord, I pay school fees and am hugely supportive and we have lots of books and I've even been known to speak to my DC in French...

well you are just a big fat cheat and it is unfair on the rest of us

Yes but do you think private schools will give bursaries to the very large majority of the population who can't afford their fees.

We couldn't get a bursary for our children - we earn way too much. We couldn't pay fees either - we earn way too little.

In my defence I allow my DC to watch endless hours of inappropriate American TV. And DS is partial to a Greggs suasage roll. I feel this evens the playing field no?