Complicated Christmas - what's best for the kids?

[duke748]

I'm not going to say which party in this I am yet, do I can get some honest opinions on the best arrangement for Christmas without giving my 'side'.

Man has double life for 2 years and is found out in June of this year. He has a 15 month old DD with one woman (woman one) (who he lived with) and a 21 month old DS with another (woman two) (who thought he lived with his parents)

He now does live with his parents while he saves up for his own house.

The man and woman two are trying to give it another go and hope to live together next year. Obviously this is not a sure thing, as lots of issues to get over.

Relations between the man and woman one were very fractious but have settled down into frosty co-parenting. Things can and do erupt over relatively small things and all of the hurt comes out.

Woman one has banned the children from seeing each other or her DD seeing woman two. She is very hurt and thinks woman two must have known and sees her as the 'mistress'. Woman two denies this, as man's parents and boss both were in on whole thing and also lied.

Woman one has also fallen out with man's parents as they were involved in the lie. Both say that there is no way back from there.

Woman two would like the children to meet whilst they are still young so that it is not a big 'reveal' later on.

Current access arrangements are that man sees his DD every other weekend and one evening a week. He sees his DS te alternate weekend (with woman two) and also none, one or two day a week (again with woman two), depending on other plans. The DD and DS have not met.

It is the DDs weekend to see her Dad 22nd-23rd December, and the DSs weekend after. It is also the DSs birthday on New Years day.

Woman two and DD live 10 mins from man. Woman two and DS live 2 hours away from man. Woman one is originally from overseas and has strained relations with her family. Woman two has no family at all, no parents or siblings. As they are giving it a go, woman two is not keen on woman one and man spending time alone together.

So (and if you've got this far - well done!) - what do you think is the best arrangement for Christmas for the benefit of the children? Is it worth setting up a 'system' for each year now, or just deal with this year for now? Part of me thinks that they are too young to really understand it anyway, but not sure really.

And yes 'man' is a complete arse and should have realised the consequences of his actions long ago. But what is done is done and I'm most interested in finding out your opinion on what is best for the children. There has been so much hurt in the past, I just don't want it handed down to the next generation. But because I'm involved I'm worried I am not seeing things clearly.

littlesurprise

thats very harsh,the op has made it clear that she didnt know they were togather he lied to her saying he lived at his parents.

fine judge the op for being stupid keeping this piss poor excuse for a father in her life.

but hes the disgusting homewreaking cheat not her.

Why is it in ds' best interests for you to be in a relationship with this man?

Why is it anyone's interests to spend time with cold, calculating liars? The pictures on the wall thing is disgraceful.

He's not rich if he's pretending to live at home, he may be charming but that is because he is a lying bastard, he may be handsome but looks will fade, he may be intelligent but he's a moron for pulling this stunt. Why waste your life with someone like this?

Personally I'd be worried the more time ds spent with him the more he'd rub off on him. Look at his lying parents and how this rubbed off on him. Unforgivable to do that to a child, sorry.

Thank you to those of you that have replied to littlesurprise.

Sock I understand that, and yes, I am being quite harsh.

But how can anyone who doesn't catch on to the 'living with parents' lie and the liar himself be close enough to conceive a child together? It feels horribly seedy.

Yes I am repeating myself, because you seem to be coming up with more excuses that lead to the same thing.....YOU ARE NOT DOING WHAT IS BEST FOR YOUR SON.

A father at any cost is not a father worth having! You believe that your issues stem from having divorced parents, but it isnt. Its because you had parents who, together or apart, cared more about themselves than you.

Being with someone, just because they are the father of your child, doesnt make a happy family. His ex worked that out, why cant you? How many more "other women" will it take for you to see that?

I kinda know someone like this irl. Their lies caught up on them and they had to move and leave the country. He's really not a good dad btw, very self obsessed and unreliable.

I'm sorry your parents were terrible. Perhaps you need help to process your past? Maybe this man is a saint compared to what your used to, but to people outside your life, he's a total lunatic who will drag you down with him sooner or later.

Duke you haven't answered my question-what are you teaching your son? Will you tell him the complete truth when he is old enough to understand & if you are still with the pondlife what will you then say to your son as to me this sends the message that his behavior is forgivable & sorry but it just isn't.

I would hate for my son to think otherwise.

This man is selfish, cold and calculating. Why is that better than your own father just because he isnt a rapist?

Sorry to be harsh but you are judging him by very low standards. Just because he isnt as bad as your father, doesnt make him a good father.

Little - it seems that when the OP got pregnant, they were living together. And had been together for several years.

So, I owe the OP an apology, she is just as much a victim as woman 1. They each had reason to believe he was committed to them.

He basically left the OP for (an unknowing) OW but omitted to tell her that he was going.

The point of the thread was the present the situation in an unbiased way as possible to see if the Christmas situation was fair to the children. As the title and first post is ALL about. And I've conceeded to keep my nose out of his DDs plans and just worry about my DS.

And then people have piled in with judgements on me and my mothering skills.

Call me a fool (or insert your choice of word) for going him another chance, fine. Don't profess to know who he did/didn't want and thy I must have known. And certainly do not call me a home wrecker (saw my mother have a decade long affair with a married man and would never do that) and certainly NEVER say I am not a good mother. My son is all I think about. I love him with every fibre of my being and he is the only reason I am still alive.

As both DC are too young to have a clue what Christmas is, then I'd stop worrying about what's going to happen on that one day of the year.

Concentrate on building a life for your DS and yourself, and let twatto sort out his arrangements for seeing his children.

Being a good father is about more than providing cash or playing with a child one day a fortnight. A vital part of being a good father is being a good role model...and I fail to see how this man can be anything approaching this.

OP - why do you think it is in your son's interests for you to remain in a relationship with this man?

You've been asked this a few times now but haven't answered yet.

Do you actively disagree with posters who say yes, encourage a relationship between son and father but that doesn't mean you should be in a relationship with him?

It seems pretty obvious to everyone that you are staying in the relationship for you - not ds.

I am sorry you have had such a shit time and I hope you and ds have a lovely Christmas. I also hope that you find the inner strength to lose the dead wood and really do the best thing for your son.

Op, please don't kid yourself that stating in this 'relationship' is best for your son. It isn't.

And tbh, I wouldn't trust this man as far as you can throw him. Especially when he has to see woman 1, who hopefully has enough self respect to not fall for his lies.

I feel sorry for you, this won't have a happy ending.

little have you never fallen for a lie? never ever?

just off the top of my head i can think of at least 8 blokes in there 20's who live with parents. he had photos of her in there house it sounds like she was conned and cheated on and lied to.

people do have babies when they sometimes shouldnt,you do know that you only have to be close enough to have sex dont you? we dont even know if he actually planned it with her filling her head with all sorts of future plans and promises either way it does not make her a homewrecker she did not know. both of the women in this are victims of his lies and he is the homewreaker.

i really think you ought to apoligise to the op for coming across like a huge nasty twat, and be honest about why, if its sounds seedy say it sounds seedy,yes shes incredibly silly keeping him in her life but homewreaker she is not.

save the big guns for real homewreakers the ones who know a actual family is involved

Another part of being a passable father is not creating secret siblings for your existing children.

You can't really have thought this thread would be about Christmas, surely?

It reads like this:

A few years ago my sister attempted to poison me so she could inherit our parents' entire estate. She didn't administer enough, and I pulled through (but am now blind).

Our mother died this weekend without leaving a will. Do you think we should serve cocktail sausages after the funeral?

I think it would help if you explain why you think that this is best for your son. BEcause as it stands, I dont think any of us can see your reasoning for staying with this vile excuse for a human being because of your son.

That is why we are saying that you must be doing it for YOU, because there is no evidence to suggest that your son will gain anything at all from having this piece of crap as a role model of how relationships should be. Or your example of what women should put up with.

Athing that is very well put, it is very much like that!

To those who have asked why it is my sons best interests to be with his dad:

1. he could see him on a more regular basis
2. I could give up work and devote my time to him until he starts school
3. he could spend more time with his grandparents, uncle and cousins (and possibly sister?) - bear in mind I have no family, so none of that on my side
4. I could retrain into the job I love in time for when he is at school - thus having a more fulfilled mummy - I am currently waiting to be made redundant from a job I hate
5. I could have his grandparents nearby to help with babysitting so I can spend time going to an exercise class for me.
6. my son and I could stop this back and forward life where we're in two places and build a life in just one place.

I actually feel sorry for you OP, like I said earlier, I know what it feels like to be treated badly.

However I think he is still lying to you and I don't think it will end well. Men like this never ever change! Please believe what everyone is saying.

Please go and get some counselling for your past. You really do deserve better

And yes I would always tell my son what his dad did (in age appropriate way). I won't lie for him. I hope (perhaps niavely) that my son will judge him for his behaviour as a dad since.

You can do nearly all of those things without being in a relationship with his dad - 2 is the only one that might be out of reach.

Can I add that I stayed in a miserable and damaging relationship for far longer than I should have. My eldest son is very damaged by it, and I wish that I had left his dad when he was still a toddler (even though if I had done that my younger two wouldn't be here). My younger two were 3 and 1 when we split and were and still are unphased by it, DS1 was 6 and is still very affected by it two years later. You are doing your son no favours by prolonging this situation.

Sorry OP but i don't think i've ever read anything so bizarre on here before....

You and your DS deserve so much better

Your son could have all of that even if you are not with him in a relationship duke. A relationship with your son is completely different.#

My dd sees her dad on a regular basis, sees her grandparents cousins half siblings etc. Why can't he have that if you are not together?!

Just because he's in a relationship with you doesn't mean that will make him good dad to your son.

If he is a good dad he will step up and be a good dad whether he is with you or not.