Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Complicated Christmas - what's best for the kids?

291 replies

duke748 · 16/10/2012 13:00

I'm not going to say which party in this I am yet, do I can get some honest opinions on the best arrangement for Christmas without giving my 'side'.

Man has double life for 2 years and is found out in June of this year. He has a 15 month old DD with one woman (woman one) (who he lived with) and a 21 month old DS with another (woman two) (who thought he lived with his parents)

He now does live with his parents while he saves up for his own house.

The man and woman two are trying to give it another go and hope to live together next year. Obviously this is not a sure thing, as lots of issues to get over.

Relations between the man and woman one were very fractious but have settled down into frosty co-parenting. Things can and do erupt over relatively small things and all of the hurt comes out.

Woman one has banned the children from seeing each other or her DD seeing woman two. She is very hurt and thinks woman two must have known and sees her as the 'mistress'. Woman two denies this, as man's parents and boss both were in on whole thing and also lied.

Woman one has also fallen out with man's parents as they were involved in the lie. Both say that there is no way back from there.

Woman two would like the children to meet whilst they are still young so that it is not a big 'reveal' later on.

Current access arrangements are that man sees his DD every other weekend and one evening a week. He sees his DS te alternate weekend (with woman two) and also none, one or two day a week (again with woman two), depending on other plans. The DD and DS have not met.

It is the DDs weekend to see her Dad 22nd-23rd December, and the DSs weekend after. It is also the DSs birthday on New Years day.

Woman two and DD live 10 mins from man. Woman two and DS live 2 hours away from man. Woman one is originally from overseas and has strained relations with her family. Woman two has no family at all, no parents or siblings. As they are giving it a go, woman two is not keen on woman one and man spending time alone together.

So (and if you've got this far - well done!) - what do you think is the best arrangement for Christmas for the benefit of the children? Is it worth setting up a 'system' for each year now, or just deal with this year for now? Part of me thinks that they are too young to really understand it anyway, but not sure really.

And yes 'man' is a complete arse and should have realised the consequences of his actions long ago. But what is done is done and I'm most interested in finding out your opinion on what is best for the children. There has been so much hurt in the past, I just don't want it handed down to the next generation. But because I'm involved I'm worried I am not seeing things clearly.

OP posts:
QuintessentialShadows · 16/10/2012 16:31

He must think you are an idiot if he wants you to believe his "ex" was pregnant for a few years.

littletreesmum · 16/10/2012 16:35

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Quasimodo · 16/10/2012 16:37

the best thing to do for your dc is to leave this man

ENormaSnob · 16/10/2012 16:50

I dont think he has any right to see either child at Christmas.

He certainly didn't have their best interest at heart when he was nobbing the ow.

Women2 is a nutter IMO.

duke748 · 16/10/2012 17:07

They were togrther. Then they broke up. Then we got together. Then they got back together. Hence the 9 month pregnancy. They got back together when i was 3 months pregnant. They concieved their DD when I was 6 months pregnant.

I visited his home lots in the 2 years before he got back with her. Then we decided to save up for a bigger house and (I thought) he moved back to his parents. I visited him there often - there were photos of me and my DS on the wall (which were obviously removed after I left each time)

I'm not trying to impose my will on anyone, least of all woman one or her DD. I have enough of my own problems.

I understand some of you think that me bein with him is not in my DSs best interests. Without laying my whole life bare (which im pretty loathe to do!) I do believe that it is in his best interests. I really resent people saying that I am putting my own needs above my sons, as I'm sure any I you would too.

OP posts:
Onceortwice · 16/10/2012 17:16

Siblings need to KNOW about each other. They do not need a relationship with each other.

In fact, given the situation, I would say trying to force one could be quite damaging.

CremeEggThief · 16/10/2012 17:17

OP, I do hope one day soon you find the strength to finish things for good with this horrid, deceitful man. He is no good for you, your DS, woman 1 or his DD. But you want to believe the best of him, so you're not ready to listen just yet.

BonVoyageCharlieBrown · 16/10/2012 17:18

No I wouldn't sorry. Theres no way on earth I'd get back with a cheating lying piece of shit like that. It is not better for you or your son. Its better for him to see that his mum is strong and its not acceptable for men to treat women like that.

I would rather be alone with the hope that one day I'll meet a decent man who loves me and treats me well. If you stay with him you are letting him know that he can do what he likes again and again because he knows you will take him back.

You deserve better. I know you can't see that now but you will.

He however deserves to be a very lonely old man

waltermittymissus · 16/10/2012 17:28

Jesus wept! The more you type the more awful it gets.

They had photos in their house that they removed after you'd left. There are NO circumstances in which it is better for your son to live full time in this situation. Unless he's unsafe with you. Which I doubt.

You were PREGNANT while he got her pregnant? FFS OP what is wrong with you?

MorallyBankrupt · 16/10/2012 17:29

Wow. Self respect has really gone out the window here Hmm

He was living with a woman and impregnated her while OP was pregant. Good God. I dont really believe OP didnt know. I just don't. He missed the birth, he missed 2 Christmasses in a row. I can't believe that deep down she didn't know something wasn't right.

BrainSurgeon · 16/10/2012 17:33

Well, there's clearly a lot more to this so I'm going to back out now. I'm sorry you are in such a difficult situation and I do believe you are trying to do what's best for your DS - let's hope it will turn out to be the right thing.
At least I hope this thread has rung a few alarm bells with you and when the time comes, maybe some of this advice will come in handy.
Good luck OP

WorraLiberty · 16/10/2012 17:35

Blimey OP you've taken a real bashing on this thread...though I expect you knew you would.

But the two children involved are babies for goodness sake, they won't even know what Christmas is Confused

Just do your own thing and let the other Mother do hers.

duke748 · 16/10/2012 17:36

Morallybankrupt - I didn't know. How many times do I need to say it?

Why no judgements on woman one for wondering why he spent an hour on the phone every night out of earshot or was never available 3 days of the week? Or a hundred other things that seemed not quite right?

Why don't we save the judgements for the guy who did this rather than the victims, huh?

OP posts:
duke748 · 16/10/2012 17:41

Oh and I am so upset by the horrible people, I forgot to thank the people who showed some kindness. Thank you.

OP posts:
BarredfromhavingStella · 16/10/2012 17:41

By staying with this complete & utter wanker what are you teaching your son? Hmm

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza · 16/10/2012 17:44

Look, you think you had a shitty time of it because your parents were not together.

You didn't.

You had a shitty time of it while your parents weren't together, because one or both of them were selfish, immature, and emotionally stunted.

You think that parents being together will make a childhood good. It won't. What fucked you up (and I'm sorry, I know how that sounds, I am not saying it to be mean) was witnessing a dysfunctional separated relationship. What will fuck your son up is witnessing a dysfunctional continuing relationship.

You say he is a good father. Honestly, I have my doubts about that, because a good father wouldn't leave you when you're pregnant, and get someone else pregnant before his first child is even born. A good father wouldn't lie to his son for 18 months about his other family. A good father would be there for his birth and his first Christmas and his first birthday.

But putting that aside, even if he is a good father - he is a shit partner. And you cannot allow your son to witness his shittiness in this regard, because it will poison his attitude to relationships.

Let him be a great father, but for heaven's sake don't keep letting your son witness what a shit partner he is. Stop modelling dysfunction. Take a leaf out of woman one's book.

Bogeyface · 16/10/2012 17:45

No one is the judging the victims, they are babies and had no hand in this mess. No one is judging his ex, she saw him for what he is and binned him off. We are judging him for his disgusting behaviour and you for putting your own wants over what is best for your child.

And no, I would not do the same. I have and would again, do without anything in order to do what is best for my children, even if that means saying goodbye to someone I love.

MorallyBankrupt · 16/10/2012 17:48

Yeah, i just don't believe that. But that is fine. You have chosen to live a life from now on where the lesson for your son is that his Mother has no respect for herself and wants to cling on to his Father despite everything the latter has done.

As some one said up thread MAN UP! For God's sake. This is utterly ridiculous. How can someone DECIDE to live like this?! I just don't get it.

Littlesurprise · 16/10/2012 17:49

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

duke748 · 16/10/2012 17:52

Bogey face - I suggest you leave this thread. You are repeating yourself.

I've already said that I am putting my sons needs over my own. If you choose to disbelieve that, then that is your progative - but I know 100 percent that I have my sons best interests at heart. To say otherwise (repeatedly) is not needed.

I said that you would get upset if I suggested that you put your own needs above your children's. You need to learn to read properly before passing judgement.

OP posts:
OptimisticPessimist · 16/10/2012 17:52

Littlesurprise, that is a really nasty and uncalled for thing to say.

duke748 · 16/10/2012 17:52

Little surprise - your comments are not needed. They are disgusting. I have reported.

OP posts:
waltermittymissus · 16/10/2012 17:53

Woah I've been quite harsh in some of my language but some of this is a bit OTT.

I certainly don't think the OP is to blame or a home wrecker!

I do think her decision to stay with him is wrong. Completely wrong. But I don't judge her for his actions!

BonVoyageCharlieBrown · 16/10/2012 17:54

What was the point of this thread OP? Did you think everyone would say that Woman one was being a bitch for not letting your boyfriend have his dd on christmas day?

I really don't get why you started it. The kids are so young they won't care. Woman one is happy, you were apparently happy with the arrangement. And you said it didn't matter what the twat wanted.

duke748 · 16/10/2012 17:57

Holdmecloser - I get where you are coming from.

It's not quite as simple as that. I had a bad childhood and bad Christmases because my father was a sadistic rapist and my mother thought I was an inconvenience thy owed her for being born. Whether they were together or not would have made little difference to the pain they were each able to cause on their own.

OP posts: