Complicated Christmas - what's best for the kids?

[duke748]

I'm not going to say which party in this I am yet, do I can get some honest opinions on the best arrangement for Christmas without giving my 'side'.

Man has double life for 2 years and is found out in June of this year. He has a 15 month old DD with one woman (woman one) (who he lived with) and a 21 month old DS with another (woman two) (who thought he lived with his parents)

He now does live with his parents while he saves up for his own house.

The man and woman two are trying to give it another go and hope to live together next year. Obviously this is not a sure thing, as lots of issues to get over.

Relations between the man and woman one were very fractious but have settled down into frosty co-parenting. Things can and do erupt over relatively small things and all of the hurt comes out.

Woman one has banned the children from seeing each other or her DD seeing woman two. She is very hurt and thinks woman two must have known and sees her as the 'mistress'. Woman two denies this, as man's parents and boss both were in on whole thing and also lied.

Woman one has also fallen out with man's parents as they were involved in the lie. Both say that there is no way back from there.

Woman two would like the children to meet whilst they are still young so that it is not a big 'reveal' later on.

Current access arrangements are that man sees his DD every other weekend and one evening a week. He sees his DS te alternate weekend (with woman two) and also none, one or two day a week (again with woman two), depending on other plans. The DD and DS have not met.

It is the DDs weekend to see her Dad 22nd-23rd December, and the DSs weekend after. It is also the DSs birthday on New Years day.

Woman two and DD live 10 mins from man. Woman two and DS live 2 hours away from man. Woman one is originally from overseas and has strained relations with her family. Woman two has no family at all, no parents or siblings. As they are giving it a go, woman two is not keen on woman one and man spending time alone together.

So (and if you've got this far - well done!) - what do you think is the best arrangement for Christmas for the benefit of the children? Is it worth setting up a 'system' for each year now, or just deal with this year for now? Part of me thinks that they are too young to really understand it anyway, but not sure really.

And yes 'man' is a complete arse and should have realised the consequences of his actions long ago. But what is done is done and I'm most interested in finding out your opinion on what is best for the children. There has been so much hurt in the past, I just don't want it handed down to the next generation. But because I'm involved I'm worried I am not seeing things clearly.

Reckon you're woman 2 & tbh there is no perfect scenarion - what do you want to happen? I would imagine that woman 1 would want to have Christmas with her kid & family & for kid's dad to see him at some point, though not necessarily on Christmas day.

Re: what the children deserve.

They deserve to grow up with strong women who will teach them that bastards like this don't get to treat people that way!

Aside from that, they are too young this year to be concerned about whether they see him on specific days or not. Seeing them while they're this young is for his benefit and no-one else.

If he was such a good dad, he wouldn't have done this to either of his children.

What happened last Christmas, out of interest? Was he with Woman 3?

Sounds like woman 2 and the poor excuse of a man want to do the whole family Christmas thing show the world what a loving perfect family they are, yet it will be complete bull and everyone including them will know it.

He has no right to expect a rosy family Christmas portrait with both children over Christmas that what happen when you fuck around with two women at the same time.

what waltermitty said.

I think your woman 2.
By spending Christmas with him and ds he has to accept he will not see dd.yes ds and dd should meet but Christmas is not the time

is woman one still wanting to be involved romantically with arsehole man?
Are her actions to try and punnish him?

IMO what woman one thinks is best needs to be considered. What is arsehole man going to do? Just force the child to meet his other offspring against woman one's wishes?

Dueling I think that's exactly what arsehole will do. And it reads like woman 2 will help him do it. :(

Ok, ok - I'm shit at secrets, unlike 'man'.

Yes I am woman two.

And woman one has suggested that her DD sees man 22-23rd as usual and thats it. I just feel bad that she won't see her Dad on any actual 'special' day. But I can't see any other way around it - just wondered if I was missing something.

And I know you will all tell me to get some self respect and dump him, that's what I'd tell other people to do. It's much more complicated than that. I have lots of friends in RL and have discussed with them and am happy with my decision so far. It's by no means set in stone, I'm just seeing how it goes. I guess that is another of my fears, that his DD will miss a Christmas with her Dad only for us to break up in 2013 and it all be for nothing.

My life is so much more complicated than I ever wanted it to be, whether I'm with him or not.

Oh and I very much think DD and DS should meet as I don't want another lie. But I am happy to wait until woman one is happy with it. I'd never go against her wishes.

What waltermitty said.

If you are woman 2, do yourself a favour and tell this excuse for a man to fuck off and die.

At this stage, both children are too young to understand Christmas arrangements being made to be permanent. The feelings of the adults have more weight this year becuase the children are unaware of which day is which and also this monstrous betrayal has only just this year happened. I don't think a system should be set up this year, that can be sorted next year when things have calmed down. By next year, woman two may have ditched this sorry excuse for a man anyway (or he's off cheating again) so best not to commit to anything permanent now, from both women's points of view.

The "man" needs to have the DD from woman one as planned on 22/23 Dec. On that weekend, he needs to do a mini Christmas with her and that's it. It's close enough to Christmas and woman one just needs to be allowed to get through the rest Christmas any way she can after this and try and do fun things for her DD. I feel exceptionally sorry for woman one and I am not surprised that she has fallen out with twat's parents because they have enabled the man to behave horrifically.

The "man" will presumably spend Christmas with woman two anyway so there shouldn't be any current access problems for the DS.

The DS and the DD will probably just squabble over toys at this stage if they meet. They'll have no idea they are half siblings I'd wait to introduce them until maybe they are 3 or 4. By this stage, things will have settled with the adults as well. At this stage, they'll be able to understand a very simple explanation that they have the same "daddy" but different mummys.

OP I hope that you are not the man in this sorry situation. If you are, I wish I hadn't bothered replying.

Woman two is making a huge mistake IMO. If it wasn't bad enough for the man to be cheating, he involved his parents in this elaborate deception. It kind of takes it to another level and also if she is considering marrying twat at any point, she will gain inlaws who are lying manipulators just like their son. I will tell you that proper inlaws will not side with a lying cheat of a son. Proper inlaws will prioritise the happiness of their grandchildren.

One day, both children will be old enough to do the maths anyway. They will be in the same academic year FGS. Then daddy will face his real judgement. for everyone concerned.

I think all the women need to ignore the man and have a lovely Xmas lunch together with olive branches and crackers. Man should sit alone on his parent's sofa watching reruns of Porridge and weeping at Carols from Kings. He will unwrap horrible socks and feel sorry for himself.

Sorted.

Well I'm delighted for his DD!

Why should you be sad for a baby who doesn't know what day of the week it is?

What did you think would happen? Woman one would hand over DD for the holidays and you'd all skip off into the sunset leaving her behind?

You don't want them spending time alone. So you're not that happy with your decision are you?

I'd be more sad for your DS tbh. You're choosing to play happy families with this arsehole because you don't want to be on your own.

You're setting your DS up to be dumped when women 3,4,5... get knocked up.

I have been the victim of a scumbag man who lead a double life. I'd rather die of loneliness than spend Christmas, or any time with a duplicitous, selfish excuse for a man.

I think you're woman 2 and my advice is to have a lovely Christmas with your DS without the man. Think long and hard about being with him when you know what he's capable of...

Still very raw for woman 1. Stick to current access which means the DD is with arsewipe dad (AWD) for 22-23 Dec.

Woman 2 and DS would be well advised to stay out of the way for 22-23 Dec so as not to rock the boat, but certainly can't be made to do that (neither woman can dictate to the other, both would be better advised to save their ire for AWD).

Woman 2 and DS can have Christmas with AWD, as well as DS's birthday on New Year's Day.

Play it by ear while kids are so small. Settled arrangements will be very difficult to work out so soon after discovery of AWD's arsewipyness.

And no I don't want some rosy pretend fake Christmas thanks. I've been perfectly honest with everyone about what he has done- I've nothing to be ashamed of.

Last Chrsitmas I thought his Nan was dying so I spent it with friends so he could see her in the hospice.

Year before (my due date) I thought he had swine flu so told him to stay away and he missed DSs birth on New Years day.

Yes, he's a complete shit.

My parents were very acrimoniously divorced and I hated Christmas as a child, I had some really horrible things happen to me on several Christmas Days trough out my life, including family death, miscarriage and arguments. I really want it to be different for my DS but also of course, want what's best for DD too.

Sorry but why the hell should he expect a rosy christmas with either kid. I think woman one is being more than fair with 22-23rd.

Sounds like your relationship is not going to last from what you've said.

I think you should dump his sorry arse and find some friends to spend christmas with. You won't have a good christmas or life for that matter with this loser. He will not change. i'm sorry but they never do.

Sorry this sounds a bit harsh (I've been in a relationship like that) You deserve a hell of a lot better and so does your son.

I am incensed that any man who has behaved like this thinks he has an equal right to see his DC in Christmas Day, especially so soon after his web of deception has unravelled. Who the fuck does he think he is???

And no, I'm not woman 1! :o

His DD won't care - she'll only be 18 months old, and I'm sure she'll have a lovely day with her mum. TBH your DS is unlikely to care either, neither is really old enough to "get" Christmas or be aware that it's a special day which would usually be spent with certain family members.

Has this man said he wants you to spend Christmas with him and his family? I agree with ecto btw, I'd be keeping your prospective in-laws at a very safe distance. They are not to be trusted any more than their son is.

You said you had a good support network of friends - if you don't want to spend Christmas just you and DS do you have friends you could spend the day with?

I think you need to back off 'What's best for DD' a bit at the moment. While it does you credit to care about her and protect her interests, she's got her mother to do that and pushing issues relating to her (like when she meets her brother) is very much treading on her mother's toes. All hell could break loose.

I have just read your latest posts. I would not be sullying my Christmas with this sorry excuse for a man. Why are you trying to make a go of things with him?!

CremeEgg

Duke this will not end well. You may say that you're not looking forward to a rosy family Christmas, yet I think that's what you're doing. You want your DS to have better Christmasses than you had, but being with this piece of scum is more than likely not going to give him that.

He can have a wonderful Christmas with you. I'm horrified by what you've written! Why, why, WHY are you still with this man??

How on earth can you be having a relationship with a man who told you he was living with his parents but was living with and making a bay with another woman.
Even if you believe you love him, are desperately lonely, whatever, please dump him.Nothing but pain will come to you and your DS from continuing to be with him.