Complicated Christmas - what's best for the kids?

[duke748]

I'm not going to say which party in this I am yet, do I can get some honest opinions on the best arrangement for Christmas without giving my 'side'.

Man has double life for 2 years and is found out in June of this year. He has a 15 month old DD with one woman (woman one) (who he lived with) and a 21 month old DS with another (woman two) (who thought he lived with his parents)

He now does live with his parents while he saves up for his own house.

The man and woman two are trying to give it another go and hope to live together next year. Obviously this is not a sure thing, as lots of issues to get over.

Relations between the man and woman one were very fractious but have settled down into frosty co-parenting. Things can and do erupt over relatively small things and all of the hurt comes out.

Woman one has banned the children from seeing each other or her DD seeing woman two. She is very hurt and thinks woman two must have known and sees her as the 'mistress'. Woman two denies this, as man's parents and boss both were in on whole thing and also lied.

Woman one has also fallen out with man's parents as they were involved in the lie. Both say that there is no way back from there.

Woman two would like the children to meet whilst they are still young so that it is not a big 'reveal' later on.

Current access arrangements are that man sees his DD every other weekend and one evening a week. He sees his DS te alternate weekend (with woman two) and also none, one or two day a week (again with woman two), depending on other plans. The DD and DS have not met.

It is the DDs weekend to see her Dad 22nd-23rd December, and the DSs weekend after. It is also the DSs birthday on New Years day.

Woman two and DD live 10 mins from man. Woman two and DS live 2 hours away from man. Woman one is originally from overseas and has strained relations with her family. Woman two has no family at all, no parents or siblings. As they are giving it a go, woman two is not keen on woman one and man spending time alone together.

So (and if you've got this far - well done!) - what do you think is the best arrangement for Christmas for the benefit of the children? Is it worth setting up a 'system' for each year now, or just deal with this year for now? Part of me thinks that they are too young to really understand it anyway, but not sure really.

And yes 'man' is a complete arse and should have realised the consequences of his actions long ago. But what is done is done and I'm most interested in finding out your opinion on what is best for the children. There has been so much hurt in the past, I just don't want it handed down to the next generation. But because I'm involved I'm worried I am not seeing things clearly.

You are right Athinginyourlife. Something makes me think there will probably be a woman 3,4 and 5 along soon (if not already). You don't go from that level of cheating to being a lovely dependable DP.

The chances of OP moving in and becoming a SAHM are about the same as me waking up in the mornng, having transformed overnight into Giselle.

I wish people could actually see their situations rather than hiding from the truth.

OP. YOU were his dirty little secret. He didnt even bother to come and support you when you had his baby. Do not waste anymore of your life on him.

The curious thing in this is why on earth his parents would collude in the lie - is he an only child? Is there an unhealthy co-dependency thing going on where they don't want him to grow up and lead a sensible life? I mean, why on earth would you collude in something like this?

The whole story reminds me of ex-h, where I found out about OW three weeks before Christmas (when dd was a baby), and subsequently found out that DD had a half-sister etc etc etc. It was the same story that his parents knew and nobody thought to inform me (apart from my best friend who eventually saw them all in a well-known furniture store).

So, three points, bearing that in mind: given that I dumped him when I had found out about OW, he had moved back with his parents and then bought a new house, I had always been a bit suspicious why he had never wanted DD to go and visit, but I was too busy getting on with our own lives to worry overly much. So, I was more annoyed at her being excluded from meeting her half-sibling than anything else. Sometimes I wish I had taken woman 1's position here, but at the end of the day, I do think the child has a right to know their family, however complicated that may be.

point 2: x-h and OW got married and are seemingly happy together. So, the relationship with woman 2 is not necessarily doomed. But if I were in Op's position, I would be questioning what kind of unhealthy upbringing he had, where his morality was at, and whether this was really the kind of man I wanted to spend the rest of my life with (or even Christmas). I think people do make mistakes, and these can involve choosing the wrong person (in xh's case, me), but I would take it really carefully all the same. And don't hide behind doing the best for your DS - my DD was brought up by me mainly and she is doing just fine.

point 3: his DD is just that, his DD. It is up to woman 1 to work out what she is happy with as regards Christmas and sort that out with him. It is nothing, I repeat, nothing, to do with you. Your concern is your DS. I agree with you that the siblings should know each other, but all you can do is leave the door open to that for the moment. Just back off and concentrate on your own child.

I, too, think that OP might well have hidden this thread, but just in case she hasn't...

OP, I know you are hearing a lot of what you hoped you wouldn't hear, and one or two posters have been particularly insensitive in the way they have expressed themselves but no-one on this thread thinks, given the information you have supplied, that attempting to stay with this man is in your, or your DS's best interest. Sorry.

He should see dd Xmas eve and Xmas morning to open presents and travel to ds around 11 getting there for 1pm open presents and lunch which makes sense as he can stay there as he is making a go of it with w2. and is there for his ds bday.Then get back to see dd after ds' bday

Ps the rights and wrongs of your relationship are nothing to do with your question so Don't get why that's been brought up.

Hope you all have a happy ending and a lovely christmas :)

I would love to be a strong independent woman who models good behaviour for my son. But I've done everything for myself for so long I'm afraid I don't have it in me to do it all alone anymore (and I mean all alone- no family support remember)

Massive un-mumsnetty hug here from me, duke, if you come back to read this. Family is what you make of it- what about those friends who are supporting you IRL in your decsision? The friends you shared last Christmas with? Family might fail you, the people you had the misfortune to have birthed you certainly have!, but it sounds like you might have some real keeper friends there.

Always remember that friends are the family we choose for ourselves.

Do you really think I am with man who can treat me like that for fun? It's ALL about my son.

Please o out and buy yourself some self respect. The best thing for you and your son is o go no where near this man, his boss or his parents.

Wow, some women would put up with any kind of inadequate pondlife rather than be alone...

Hope you see the light and find some strength OP. Mumsnet is harsh and tough sometimes - but for the right reason and is brimming with support and concern.

So come back when he starts family number three with some other unsuspecting woman anytime.

You need to separate your DS's relationship with his father, from your relationship with this man.If he's a good father ( and some lotharios are) then he'll come through for your DS. If he isn't prepared to maintain a good relationship with his child without being with you, then you are better off cutting links with him now before your child is old enough to be strung along by him as you have been for so long.

Your son might grow up to judge you for inflicting such a man on him.

THIS

I would love to be a strong independent woman who models good behaviour for my son. But I've done everything for myself for so long I'm afraid I don't have it in me to do it all alone anymore (and I mean all alone- no family support remember)

This, and this alone is the reason the OP wants to be with this man. The list of "reasons" why it was better for her son was the smokescreen - it's because she doesn't want to be alone.

I really feel for you OP - but the voice of experience in my says that when you have been lied to a point such as this being alone is so much easier. I was terrified of being alone too, so I stayed with (and fought for which I regret so much) a man who cheated on me. It was only when he did something absolutely intolerable that I left.

And being alone was far easier than being with him, it actually felt restful to be away from the constant "where is he? what is he doing? will he do it again" carousel of doubt that is permanent background noise when you have been cheated on. It was calm, and I was HAPPY. Sounds odd but I was on tenterhooks of panic the whole time I was with him after the day I found out.

Yes I stayed with him - but afterwards, when I had picked my self esteem back up I was disgusted with myself for that choice.... and I vowed that if ever a man cheated on me again I'd be gone.

Please don't think that being with him will be easier than being alone. Alone is hard, but being with someone who has hurt you so deeply, who you know you can't trust and the feelings that come with that is a lot harder.

The other side of fighting for him and staying with him.... he knew he could treat me like shit and I'd take it.

So he did. Horrendously so.

One of my biggest regrets is that I not only put myself in that situation - but that I fought to stay there.

He nearly destroyed me. Thank God I finally left because I wouldn't be me now if I hadn't.

Just feel sorry for the older child who is going to look at the younger child one day and wonder why he and his mummy weren't enough to stop his daddy going off with another woman and fathering another baby with her