Complicated Christmas - what's best for the kids?

[duke748]

I'm not going to say which party in this I am yet, do I can get some honest opinions on the best arrangement for Christmas without giving my 'side'.

Man has double life for 2 years and is found out in June of this year. He has a 15 month old DD with one woman (woman one) (who he lived with) and a 21 month old DS with another (woman two) (who thought he lived with his parents)

He now does live with his parents while he saves up for his own house.

The man and woman two are trying to give it another go and hope to live together next year. Obviously this is not a sure thing, as lots of issues to get over.

Relations between the man and woman one were very fractious but have settled down into frosty co-parenting. Things can and do erupt over relatively small things and all of the hurt comes out.

Woman one has banned the children from seeing each other or her DD seeing woman two. She is very hurt and thinks woman two must have known and sees her as the 'mistress'. Woman two denies this, as man's parents and boss both were in on whole thing and also lied.

Woman one has also fallen out with man's parents as they were involved in the lie. Both say that there is no way back from there.

Woman two would like the children to meet whilst they are still young so that it is not a big 'reveal' later on.

Current access arrangements are that man sees his DD every other weekend and one evening a week. He sees his DS te alternate weekend (with woman two) and also none, one or two day a week (again with woman two), depending on other plans. The DD and DS have not met.

It is the DDs weekend to see her Dad 22nd-23rd December, and the DSs weekend after. It is also the DSs birthday on New Years day.

Woman two and DD live 10 mins from man. Woman two and DS live 2 hours away from man. Woman one is originally from overseas and has strained relations with her family. Woman two has no family at all, no parents or siblings. As they are giving it a go, woman two is not keen on woman one and man spending time alone together.

So (and if you've got this far - well done!) - what do you think is the best arrangement for Christmas for the benefit of the children? Is it worth setting up a 'system' for each year now, or just deal with this year for now? Part of me thinks that they are too young to really understand it anyway, but not sure really.

And yes 'man' is a complete arse and should have realised the consequences of his actions long ago. But what is done is done and I'm most interested in finding out your opinion on what is best for the children. There has been so much hurt in the past, I just don't want it handed down to the next generation. But because I'm involved I'm worried I am not seeing things clearly.

I'm not ignoring people. If you want me to leave him based on the opinions of people I don't know, then no I won't.

If you remember, I asked about Christmas arrangements and what is fair for the children. I never asked for relationship advice.

He asked woman one what she wanted for Chrstmas for her daughter. She said she was happy with weekend before. I am happy with it from mine and my DSs point of view, I just dont want to do the wrong thing by DD.

Blimey what a big bloody mess!

Well, on your question...don't concern yourself with his dd. She'll have a lovely Christmas with her mum. Just stick to the normal arrangements. I very much doubt man would be welcome at hers with woman one there on Christmas day.

I feel sorry for you duke this situation is shit! If/when you guys split do come back to MN it is supportive and the ppl here will see you through.

Please don't stay with him for your son he'll only teach your son to behave like him.

Good luck

I haven't asked him what he wants as I agree - what he wants doesn't come into it.

We think you should leave him based on the fact he is a liar and has no respect for you. Not opinion, that's the facts you have presented.

If it's just the DD you are worried about then don't.....she is 15 months old and won't have a clue whether she sees her dad on xmas day or not.

I think the best thing for the children is to have limited contact with this man. Based on the way he has treated you and W1, he is going to hurt these children time and time again.

I am sad for your ds that you think having a relationship with this man is in his best interest. He needs to have a positive role model in his life, not a liar.

I agree that you should tell your ds that he has a sister from the off. So that he wont remember finding out. He may or may not get to know her but at the very least he should know of her. The 'man' doesn't get to decide on hiding the truth from your son.

Where is he when he's not having contact at hers or yours? What does he do the rest of the week? Where does he live now?

Also if woman one is happy with the christmas contact then I don't think you need to worry about her DD.

Your son would be better off with minimal contact with his father. What is he picking up and learning from this man. You asked for advice but aren't listening. You are becoming rude to people who are only giving their opinions. Good luck. I think youll need it.

"I think both women should ditch this sorry excuse for a man and spend christmas with their respective kids and other family."

Yes.

This man should not see either of his children.

OP, you are an idiot.

What OptimistPessimist said! To repete:

The best thing you can do for your DS is to model healthy, mutually respectful relationships. That includes showing your DS that sometimes, just you and mum together is better than mum and a dad. even if mum is quite lonely Surely avoiding "family death, miscarriage and arguments" by avoiding this man and the nutters who raised him/helped him lie to you would be preferable to opening yourself (and your son!) up to the possibility of hurt and arguments, esp at Christmas?

To answer your original question:
My DD is 3 1/2. Her first christmas, age 7 months, she didn't get it at ALL! Her seccond, age 1 1/2 (so a bit younger than your son will be), she "got" that opening packages to find toys to play with was a good game. It wasn't until last year and hours of watching the Peppa Pig Christmas episodes on You Tube that she "got" that it was a special time. I'm SURE that these two kids WILL NOT UNDERSTAND NOR CARE (as long as they get things to open) which days they have for the party, nor which days which adults are around.

I KNOW this is not my place but... have you had councelling for/about the horrible situation your parents put you in over Christmases and the rest of the time? Have you been given any advice (here, through friends, your HV, in councelling, self help books, blogs, anything!) on how to give your DS a better childhood than you apparently had?

I think woman one has the right idea and woman two is clearly, quite stupid for staying with him. Once a cheat always a cheat.....
Anyway about the dc, the Man (if you can call him that) should let his ds by woman one stay for one or two days over christmas so both can meet, because after all they are brother & sister and he should be loyal to woman 1s ds and see him atleast twice a week.

I'm baffled that you would be sad for 'man' not being able to see his DD on Christmas day. So you would rather her mother be without her, the one who hasn't done any wrong and has only recently found out her child's father is a scum bag?

Just out of interest where he and woman 1 married? I find it odd that you were at a point in your pregnacy and the DD hadn't even been consived yet that it didn't occurs to him to ditch her and stick with you? Unless they were married then I can see it being more complicated.

Oh there'll be minimal contact alright. As soon as he finds some other sucker to exploit while being helped and enabled by his, frankly revolting, family.

This sounds like something out of Shameless...

I just dont want to do the wrong thing by DD

But it's not up to you: her mother has said what she wants for her, and that isn't something that is for you to change.

" I just dont want to do the wrong thing by DD. "

Sweetie, what happens with your "partner's" DD has NOTHING to do with you. I'm sorry, but you need to back off from this 15 month old's life.

I asked for advice on Christmas arrangements and I thank those who have given it.

I wholeheartedly disagree that my DS should have limited contact with his father. He looks after him well and loves him. No abuse towards my DS in any way shape or form. If I denied access it would be based on my own hurt, so not in my DSs best interests.

I don't see where I have been rude? Exasperated by people who sent reading before commenting, yes.

If cocklodger wanted his children to have a relationship they would during his contact.

I suspect that he isn't that bothered.

No marriage, no. They dated for several years before we met but had been split for over a year before we got together.

Am happy to concede that if woman 1 is happy then I should also be happy.

Wondering about what is best for a little girl (while saying NOTHING to anyone about it) is hardly being unreasonably interfering, is it?

You say you only asked for christmas arrangements advice but then said that woman one is happy with it and that you are happy with it.

People have given you some very good advice on here but I get why you are angry. I think you are in denial.

I agree with what someone else said about you getting some counselling and in the new year you could look into getting some mediation about the kids seeing each other and their dad.

Good luck with everything. When it all goes tits up, please come back because people on here will support you x

Well if you can't see it from anyone else's point of view I suggest you don't ask for advice.

Bogey face - it was your FIL and his behaviour which fucked up your exH. Not your MILs

Yes it was, but.....she didnt protect him from that when she could and should have done. She was as implicit in what happened to my H as his father was. And that is exactly what you are doing to your son.

You can dress it up as "I am doing this for my son" as much as you like but the fact is, you are selfish. You want this man in your life and you will do whatever it takes to get that. You have been told over and over that this man is a liar, a cheat and will continue to be so. You have been told that the damage to your DS could in incalculable, but you dont care. You just want your man.

If you want to fuck your life up, go ahead. But the fact that you are happy to take your little boy along on this destructive and disfunctional ride, disgusts me.

No marriage, no. They dated for several years before we met but had been split for over a year before we got together.

And you believe that do you?

So at what point did he get back with her? when you were dating? Pregnant? When did he move in with her? Are you implying that actually, SHE is the OW?

Sheesh you are even more deluded than I thought! No wonder he is with you, you are easier to fool than a blind puppy!

Not that split though OP if he was living with her and getting her pregnant.

Gosh I am so furious at his behaviour and I'm also angry that you feel that continuing a relationship with him is in anyone's best interest. How can you trust him? How can you bear to have him touch you? WHY do you think you being with him is good for your DS? Why don't you think YOU deserve better?

You deserve better. Honestly you do.