to be shocked at my nieces' and nephews' diet?

[hornybill]

I might even have to say something to SIL, but not sure, so I thought I'd see what you lot say first.

SIL and her DH have 4 dcs, 7, 5, 3 and 6 months. I love them all and see them regularly. SIL has a very different approach to parenting from me and DH's but whatever, none of my business.

But, the 3 older dcs eat nothing but junk. Crisps, biscuits, ice lollies and orange squash mainly. I used to tell myself that just because that's what they ate when I saw them didn't mean that's what they always eat, but I've now spent enough time with them that I know this is how they always eat. They never really eat meals as such, she just gives them snacks all day long, but not healthy snacks. I think she finds it hard to cope with 4 dcs (fair enough) but the way she has dealt with this is to give them something to eat every time they are bored. So now they ask for food all the time.

I often pick up the older 2 from school and their packed lunch is virtually untouched so they are hungry when they get home and immediately start on the crisps etc. I think they don't bother to eat the sandwich because they know they will get crisps and biscuits as soon as they get home.

I don't understand why SIL who is intelligent and lovely would feed her dcs like this? I'm all for being relaxed around food but this must be terrible for their health?

I can't see SIL using a slow cooker - I would quite like one though!

Thinking about this the only thing I can do (aside from being direct with SIL and risking a lot) is to offer to have the kids over more, maybe at weekends when I can have them for longer. I like having them over, they play well with my dcs who are similar ages and I actually love cooking and feeding the masses.

We do skirt around the issue with the in-laws. Mainly as regards going out for meals. MIL and FIL love eating out (real foodies actually) and are very generous in inviting us all out and paying for it all fairly often. There is usually some kind of hoo-ha over where to go that would suit SIL as "it's hard with the kids" or trying to get a babysitter for the younger 2, but that is hard as the 3yo will only be left with certain people. SIL's attitude is that the dcs haven't learnt how to behave in restaurants yet, but her DH is obviously a bit embarrassed and tries to make them behave. The behaviour is one thing, but I do think they would eat some of the food in restaurants if they were actually hungry!

My friend does this, she does cook proper meals but the child is allowed free access to junk all day and won't eat proper food. She'll leave the dinner table to go get herself an ice lolly or crisps. The child is overweight and her older sister who's a teen is morbidly obese.

It is neglect, and it's horrible to watch. The teenage dd is at uni now and has never had as bf, is constantly trying new crash diets and bootcamp exercise programs but no-one seems to have made the connection between 24/7 consumption of junk food and the obesity.

What will you do op?

I have four DC of similar ages when DC 4 was born the others were 5, 4 & 22 months. It is very difficult there's no question but you can cut corners, if we're having say an easy dinner of fish fingers and chips I add frozen veg, fruit is a quick snack. It takes 5 mins to make sandwiches for lunch.

I also wish I had a SIL like you who helped out and actually cared, we have no one and that's hard too.

My older 2 DCs now ask me for more healthy smacks as they are bombarded with healthy eating at school and often ask "is cheese healthy?" "is ham healthy" etc.

Also junk food costs a lot too.

Summer what does the teen's weight have to do with her love life? I was an obese teen and never struggled to get boyfriends, the two are not intrinsically linked.

Summerrain that is just so sad. Maybe I do need to say something. How about if I tell SIL what the dcs ate at my house and mention that I denied them crisps just before lunch because I thought they could wait 15 mins? Too subtle?

I am trying to work out why SIL really does this now. And I've come to the conclusion that it's not really about food and fussy eater and not having time. I think it's all part of the general issue of not being able to say no to her dcs and wanting to keep them happy at all times. Junk food is just the way she does this. For example, we went bowling a couple of weeks ago - it was their idea. The 3yo didn't really enjoy it and is a bit clingy in general just now so every time SIL went up for her turn, DN kicked off. It was only for 30 seconds or so (we had to keep him out of the way so he didn't get a ball dropped on him) but she immediately decided he wasn't joining in and went off to get him crisps and a fruit shoot so he could sit and have those instead. My eldest who is only 8 actually remarked on it - she said "why does DN get those just because he was crying?"

If it was just about the food and not having time, I think providing meals etc would help.

OP, I htink it's easy to find yourself in SIL's situation.

My own SIL is the same. The kids never wanted breakfast so would snack mid morning. Then they wouldn't want their lunch. Then they'd be out and about so she'd give them some sweeties to calm them...so no dinner.

She didn#t mean it to happen but it gradually slid. And she didn't have the energy or will to know how to tackle it.

You can't change their eating habits by popping in now and then and presenting them with a decent meal, especially in their own home when they are surrounded by snacks. This needs to come from their parents and it sounds like that is unlikely at the moment.

If they are fussy eaters what you did, although well intentioned, has probably only served to reinforce a negative view of healthy food.

If you want to promote a better attitude to food it is probably better to care for them in your own house, not dole out any snacks and give them meals when they are hungry. If she doesn't want to get them ready do it yourself when you pick them up.

Don't make a fuss about it or make any comparisons with what they eat at home. Be very matter of fact about placing the food on the table and letting them take what they want. Offer no desserts to anyone and allow them to stop eating and get down when they choose.

If this happens regularly they will develop two different eating patterns and swap readily between the two.

You can't change what they eat at home but you can help them to develop healthier eating habits alongside what the usually experience.

For the record, bread, ham and fruit was a very appropriate lunch which the majority of children would happily eat.

Although your SIL sounds, on the face of it, rather lazy, there may be issues you don't know about to do with food, depression, etc so you need to be very careful not to be openly critical. I would carry on expecting to see the children served healthy food and cheerfully offer to pop to the shops when she's 'run out of' healthier alternatives. That is probably the least threatening way to raise her awareness that her behaviour is not seen as appropriate.

YANBU to be concerned and something does need to change. I'm a bit perplexed by the earlier posters telling you it's none of your business - the children are being let down by their parents so whose business is it exactly? The OP's PIL? The SIL's best friend? School? Social services? How far does it have to go before someone is allowed to care?

Would an offer of help/a frank conversation come better from you or your brother?

goldmandra thanks those are helpful suggestions.

I am wondering if DH could say something. I think SIL would take it better from him, although there is a bit of a history of older br giving advice and her shrugging it off.

Like I said, I don't think it's really about the food as such.

wordfactory I don't totally agree - I mean, i can see how some people would do this but no matter how many dcs I had the rules in my house remain and that's the way we like it!

I really think that suggesting casseroles, slow cooker etc will put her off.

I remember when i had a tough time i stick on the cupboard a list with no-cook meals/snacks i.e. banana sandwitch, french eggy bread, hummus, baked potato with beans or cheese or tuna, cheese/ham toasties, eggs etc. A friend came in my house and she said she will do the same. Not that anyone doesn't know these foods of course but somehow its different if you have the list in front of you on tough days, at least to me. And it takes i think 3 days to wean off crisps and sweets.
Maybe you can tell her that you are trying this and if she wants to join you? And have a jar where you put the money you save from not buying crisps?

YANBU to be shocked & :( about it, but YABU to interfere directly.
Having them around for longer spells is the most I would dare do, of the things you've suggested.
I don't think anything was wrong with your ham & bread offering.

Laquitar I think SIL would say ok then I don't know after that. She so laid back which is lovely most of the time but I really don't know why she thought she could cope with 4 dcs!

Horny, you really are coming across as very judgemental, especially where you talk about rules remaining in your family.
You know her (them). You know what is likely to work. Talk to your in laws, see if between you can come up with some suggestions. If you're a close family then a family pact to improve your diets might work. If its been going on for ages then a talk to one of them by your dh or in laws where you actually say you feel the children are being neglected may be enough to shock one of them into action. Because they are BOTH neglecting their children, your brother in law isn't some sort of helpless victim here.

I agree with SHRIIIEEEK

Why is it judgmental to say I stick to the rules for my own dcs?

Do the older ones do any sports? Can you and PIL buy them smth 'sporty' as xmas present?

" but no matter how many dcs I had the rules in my house remain and that's the way we like it!"
Lacks empathy
" I really don't know why she thought she could cope with 4 dcs!"
Smug and judgy.

Their diet is Crap. So what are you going to do? Dropping hints will not work. While having the dc around often is very kind of you, they are at home most of the time, and it is there that their overall diet will be either good or bad. It's also where their habits will be set.

My dd1 wouldn't eat grapes, cucumber or tomato because she doesn't eat any fruit, but she eats bucket loads of veg and will have a smoothie.

A couple of suggestions, firstly if your SIL can't cook, is there anywhere which teaches cooking skills, maybe a Christmas present for her, day away learning some basic skills. Secondly when you have the older ones over could you start teaching them to cook? My 7 and 5 year old will help prepare veg, 7 yr old can put microwave on etc, also getting them to eat slightly healthier snacks, e.g. Rice cakes instead of crisps, or even baked crisps instead of normal crisps. Point out to them the healthier labels, do it as a maths exercise, 'lets see which have the smallest amount of fat'.

If you can face it, taking them shopping can be great. I do take all three of mine shopping, but not usually for a full weekly shop. Ds (3) will happily shop every day, but the girls only want to go if they have written a list and can 'help'.

I think you probably need a two pronged approach so it isn't just 'well they will eat well for me'. Could you get them to plan and make a meal for SIL + BIL?

Good ideas, though I'd be more worrird about salt, sugar and vitamins than fst

hornybill - what's your SIL's DH like and what is their marriage like? Could you have a word with him about it and see if he can talk to her about the situation without her ever knowing that you're involved and that an 'outsider' has 'passed judgment' on their eating habits?

FWIW I think you're getting a bit of a hard time about this. I know it's considered bad form to judge people for anything these days, but IMO a little more judginess would go a long way to cut back on the inexorable rise of obesity in this country. It is bad parenting to feed your child a diet of junk food. It can be 'justified' with pleas of fussy eating and the like, but the truth is that children can only eat what is provided by adults, and no healthy child will starve itself. To raise a child on a diet of junk food is to raise a child that will suffer far-reaching health consequences for the rest of their life. It's completely avoidable.

As for the household rules thing, I'm with you because I also believe in the consistent application of rules, though I'm quite a laid back parent in terms of the rules I insist on. Only you and your family know if you're a bit smug and judgemental in how you come across to others in the family, but again, if your DSIL is not applying whatever rules she has consistently, then she's creating problems for herself and children with ineffective boundaries who are confused by what's expected of them. It's not rocket science. She doesn't have to implement any rules she's uncomfortable with because her children her choice, but she does need to stick with them if she wants them followed.

Well I think, unless the whole family are converted to healthy eating, changing small things could make a difference, so moving from a normal packet to baked crisps then to rice cakes will lessen the resistance. Also it's important not just to swop crisps for chips and (cheap) chicken nuggets. By educating the children about healthy eating and labels you can teach them about a balanced diet.

If your SIL has a problem with confrontation and giving into her DC's demands, then the same thing would happen whether she had 1, 2 or 4 DC's, so there's really no need to keep mentioning the fact that she has 4, in a negative way. I think a little part of you enjoys seeing her struggle a bit with 4 DC - sometimes people do this to justify their own decisions, such as sticking to 2 DC....

YANBU to be shocked at their diet though. Does it seem like she wants help on it? Does she ever ask about what your 2 eat, etc?

Camperfan I completely agree that SIl might have been the same no matter how many dcs she had.

I have a mate who admits to never cooking, she never, ever, cooks. The kids are fed crisps and snacks. She is really struggling with both kids as they are always ill and have behavioural problems. I can't help but think it's down to their diet, but who am I to say anything. I just offer sympathy and support as she is driven more and more to her wits end with her kid's health and behaviour