Would you give up your seat on a crowded train

[akaemmafrost]

During rush hour, for a child, say between the ages of 5 and 11?

I would and have. It's just a discussion I was having today and I thought I would put it to MN.

I guess it comes down to people who just think that out of politeness adults trump children, and people who don't.

I just do, partly because that's what I was taught growing up, and going by others on this thread that's why a lot of people believe that.

If you just don't, well, I think you're wrong, and you think I'm wrong, and never the twain etc etc.

couthy but maybe the person you asked also had a condition/disability which meant they couldnt stand...same as your ds. I wouldnt assume that the person was fit and healthy and rude

and they didnt want to divulge...the same way you dont want to broadcast ds's mediacl history....

Indeed couthy you seem to be making exactly the same assumptions about other people that you complain they're making about your child.

And if you come across with the same rather hysterical and aggressive attitude in real life as you do on here, I'm not surprised people are disinclined to believe you or want to help you or your kid.

If I wasn't pregnant or having a migraine I would stand for anyone who looked like they needed it.

Either because they are pregnant, or elderly, or disabled, or injured, or just having a really crap day (I once offered a seat to a young woman who burst into tears and thanked me as she was feeling unwell).

I would also offer the seat to someone with young children (say under 5) for them or the children (as they see fit) or for any older child who looks like they're struggling (e.g. if it's very crowded and they're being knocked around or they're unsteady on their feet or looking unwell).

I would not offer my seat to an older child (say 5 to 11 as in the OP) if the train wasn't crowded and they didn't seem to be having any difficulties.

I would give my seat up to anyone who asked for it unless I was pregnant or having a migraine (although in 7 years of commuting on a Paris metro I have never once been asked to give up my seat though I have offered it and been offered one myself).

I've just noticed that the op's child has hypermobility syndrome as does my daughter. I still would not have expected an adult to stand for my DD unless she was using crutches that day or was obviously in need . People are not mindreaders.

And as on my buses, a child has paid exactly the same fare as an adult at peak time, why should an adult be more 'entitled' to the seat anyway, if both the child and the adult are fit and healthy.

It's attitudes like Couthymows that makes me totally despair of what has become of civilisation. Why/when did "we" become so bloody selfish?

Out of interest, why do adults trump kids for seats on transport?

akeammafrost I was taught (way back in the fifties) that you stand out of respect for your elders. Makes sense to me.

I was brought up in the 70s/80s rather than the 50s, but I was also taught that adults come first, out of respect. Not that kids should be 'seen and not heard' or anything, but definitely that kids should defer to adults in matters of seats on trains, waiting until invited to join an adult conversation and then not monopolising it, etc.

Not necessarily easy to justify or explain logically, but I feel in my bones that that's the 'good' way to behave. And I find sentiments like 'And as on my buses, a child has paid exactly the same fare as an adult at peak time, why should an adult be more 'entitled' to the seat anyway' repellent, again for reasons that I feel deeply although probably couldn't logically defend.

I think adults trumping children is just an extension of respecting you're elders. You should always respect you're elders and therefore out of respect you wouldn't see an adult stand while a child sits. I think anyway.

I don't know, I just never allow my children to sit if there are adults who want the seat. They go on my lap, or stand by me, or have my seat and I stand. Thats how I've always done it on the tube or bus which is our main mode of transport. I just can't see how a healthy child needs to sit, seems totally bizarre to me.

I agree with ladyclarice its good manners, but not easily logically explained

I think maybe because adults are more likely to be tired? been at work etc etc...children have more energy

No-one is saying that someone with a disability should stand

Actually, LilyBoleroa poster did respond on this thread to me saying I had a temporary (18 month) disability ie use of only one arm, and that they didn't see that as a disability and would think I could stand OK on a crowded moving bus. As a reason for children not standing up for me.

So some people take it upon themselves to judge how disabled a fellow passenger is.

All I can say is, try managing your backpack/briefcase, purse for ticket/busfare, and standing on a crowded bus with only one arm, particularly if you are exhausted from pain & fearful of more pain being caused by falling.

Such fun!

i got on a bus with my baby in a pushchair once..there was a disabled lady sat in the disabled seats with her leg stuck out in the aisle, which made it difficult for people to pass us. Other passengers were tutting at her and 1 even asked her to move her leg so that i could get into the space better. it was a horrible horrible situation i got off at the next stop

haha...sorry that lends nothing to the conversation

just brain over-spill!

priority seats

yes of course

I was brought up in the 70s/80s rather than the 50s, but I was also taught that adults come first, out of respect. Not that kids should be 'seen and not heard' or anything, but definitely that kids should defer to adults in matters of seats on trains, waiting until invited to join an adult conversation and then not monopolising it

Ditto, LadyClarice. Although I was a child in the 60s/70s. And of pretty liberal parents too, so we weren't "seen and not heard either."

This thread has caused me to think about why that is, and I do think it's about a kind of "civilising" process (for want of a better word). All humans are self-centred at heart -- we have to be for survival. Very young children can't survive without making their needs clear.

But growing up seems to me to be a process of gradually learning that the world doesn't revolve around our desires still learning that one at 50!

So part of raising DCs is to require that they learn to think of others as well as, and sometimes, before themselves. And requiring standard stuff like standing up for adults, standing as someone walks into the room, letting others go through the door first etc (all of these things I still do) may seem old-fashioned or strict, but they're part of a set of behaviours we call manners, which at base are about thinking of others and their convenience and comfort, as well as or even before your own.

Agreed, CollieDog. Although it's never occurred to me to stand up when someone comes into the room (unless at a party or gathering and you're going to greet them, I suppose).

Sorry, just wading into what seems to me a very interesting thread (have just read the entirety).

It seems to me that as individuals, we all have different levels of need, and the onus is on us to express that need as and when we feel it.

People cannot be expected to mindread, or 'assess' the levels of needs of others because it just isn't accurately possible, and opens up all kinds of unpleasant avenues of assumption.

Is a person pregnant or overweight? Is a person 'disabled and in need', or 'disabled and angry at being patronised'? Is a person 'elderly and fragile' or 'elderly and full of vitality, annoyed at being 'labelled''?

People may try and judge the needs of others in the most helpful, friendly way and be soundly criticised for this as 'discriminating', 'assuming', etc. And these points too are valid!

Which brings us back to the point that the only person who actually understands the level of need involved, is the person experiencing it. And so yes, the onus is on them to communicate this in some way (hopefully politely).

This then bounces the ball into the court of the person sitting who has to ask themselves honestly whether they are well enough to stand, and if not, to express their own level of need back (hopefully with empathy and politeness).

Good post scared

Scaredbutdoingit Good idea, but because of the way I - and many of my generation - am, I'll probably still always stand for someone who's obviously pregnant. [except CouthyMowWearingOrange ]

no, at that age they can balance quite well (unless there are other issues).
for what it's worth, I commute with my small dc, one of them is under 3 and we usually stand (only short journey). usually packed train and usually we are not offered seats.

And I think thats beautiful OneMoreChap.