To want his teacher do more than just apologise?

[FuriousP]

Sorry long post.I have namechanged for obvious reasons!
My son is a new Yr7 at High School, he has been loving classes, and especially those with a certain teacher, he has come home raving about how good her lessons are etc.
Last Friday, I had a very worrying call from his brother (DS2) to say DS1 had been upset by a teacher at school, and was so embarrassed he hadn't got the bus home, and was going to try to walk to his dads palce of work (only 1.5mile, but DS's dont really know the town where the school is very well, and certainly would not be sure of the walking route to that workplace) I tried to ring DS1, only to find his phone was out of power, so immediatly left work and drove to the school, only to find DS2 had got the late bus home instead (couldnt find dads, so went back and caught it, thank god)
It turns out that the beloved teacher had seen him fiddling under the desk (his pen had broken, he was trying to put it back together), and said "DS1, there is only one reason for your hand to be under your desk, and you having a big smile on your face, you are obviously playing with your willy!" and the whole class laughed at him My DS gets teased quite a lot as he has a few minor physical disability issues anyway, and found this totally humiliating, so burst into tears, and the TA took him out of nclass and sat with him outside to calm him down. Teacher then came out and said "Sorry, I shouldnt have said that, but lets not make an issue of it, shall we?" all DS wanted to know was why she had done this to him, which she wouldn't (or could'nt!) answer. The bell went for end of school, and all kids came out of class, still talking about incident and laughing, adn at that point DS had made the decision not to get on the bus.
When I got home and heard this, I tried to ring school, but only got answering machine, then at 6pm, I had a phone call from the school Deputy Head Teacher, apparently the TA had gone to him and reported the incident, along with another teacher who had heard this woman talking to DS in the corridor, and DHT, was investigating, and wanted to know if an apology was enough, or did we want more, as apparently this teacher was already under warning for "inappropriate behaviour"!
DS is very upset still, he is worried that the teasing will get worse, and everybody will say he was playing with himself in class, but doesnt want teacher to get sacked, what do I say I want to happen, as, personally I want her hung out to dry for hurting my sons feelings so much, but also want to repect sons wishes?? Thanks for reading this, any opinions welcome (puts on hard hat!)

How about waiting to see how you feel the school are handling it before deciding?

Unless they want a decision from you and your DH right at that moment, could you say you'd prefer to go away and think about what they've said? Then talk to your DS about it?

It's possible anything they do would be out of your hands anyway as she's employed by the school, won't they have to follow (disciplinary?) procedures when something like this has happened?

If they're right on the ball and do everything you expect of them, and a bit more, you might feel that's enough. But if they umm/ahhh about it, trying to shift the blame or minimise what's happened then you'd have something to fall back on.

I don't think it'd be right to totally ignore your DSs feelings on it, he's the one who still has to go in every day.

Maybe he's not able to take the wider consequences into account, but he shouldn't be made to feel he has a responsibility for every other child the teacher comes into contact with, in the end it was her and not him who acted inappropriately, he shouldn't feel he has to suffer for it for the greater good.

Oh yeah, hope he's feeling better soon

Sadly, children become accustomed to the idea that it's wrong to 'dob' on someone from a early age. It wasn't until tea-time chatter between my then yr4 son 'so why were you crying at school today?' with my then yr6 son that I became aware of an incident.
Turned out he'd been stabbed in the buttock, which the school tried to dismiss as horseplay but which ended up with the child involved being cautioned by the police for ABH.
4 years on & the now yr8 comes home in a filthy state; buttons ripped off his jacket as he's been thrown to the floor, had empty cans chucked at him; survived an invitation from the aggressor for others to 'crush him' as his friends came to his defence; he wants me to report it but won't name the boy involved. To me, yes, but he doesn't want me to tell the school!
I can fully understand your DS's thinking, but you really have to make a decision independent of his wishes, particularly since his twin is destined to be taught by the same woman. Discussing his progress at parents' evening? How comfortable will that feel?
If she is asked to leave (& it will prob be arranged that she moves on) then it'll soon be forgotten about when the next hot topic occurs. If she stays your DSs will always be aware of her, no matter how much contact they have.
Your DS is coping with this so well. Congrats to his twin who'll be beating him up again tomorrow if mine're anything to go by!

But it´s not up to you/him whether or not she loses her job.

You have to complain-if nothing else about her asking him to say nothing!

Then it´s out of your hands.

she couldn't be sacked for this ime. teachers more than most have employment rights and very clear guidelines for disciplinary action. you can say you want disciplinary action taken of course but what that is depends on the teachers pay and conditions document.

i would convey to you and you should to your son that it isn't up to you what happens to her, that is governed by established structures and procedures and will be between the school, the lea and the union to work out if it comes to that level.

also it isn't him 'dobbing' on her - she behaved this way in front of a classful of children and in front of other staff. you are being asked your response to it and opinion and you are giving it and yes it will be considered but any consequences are to her actions not your response to it.

but honestly gut feeling says she'd been drinking. what time of day was the lesson?

I'm sorry your son is going through this. I can understand that he doesn't want the teacher to lose her job but ultimately it isn't down to him or you whether or not this happens. There could be a number of aspects of her teaching including this incident which are not up to scratch which, taken together, result in her losing her job.

What has being used to teaching 6th formers got to do with anything ? A teacher will ask a 6th former if he's playing wih his willy ? really ? I dont even know which one is more awful! No wonder why there seems to be more and more inapropriate relationships developing between teacher and student, that comment is completely crossing boundaries.

Not every 16year old would find this funny, some might have a quick throwback "why, do you want a feel ?" perhaps, but its all rapidlygoing down the gutter from here onwards not to mention the embarrassment of the girls.

I'd see that teacher's arse right out of the school and when it happens i'll explain to ds that she was a bit embarrased by it all and got a better teaching offer elsewhere.

Another update. DS1 was very aprehensive about going back to school, as his DB had said people were laughing at him yesterday-(turns out this was not true, just DS2 trying to get back at his DB for some imagined slight or other - back to 'normal' there then!). Anyway, I had to be in work this am as I had an important clinic on, so DH went with son to school, and saw the DHT with DS. MissA is now on 'sick leave'!('gardening' leave??), and the only reason she is not teaching DS1 is that they have been streamed and she is teaching the other stream (very convenient timing IMO). DHT is maintaining that Misiss A did not say what we had heard, but when DS was called in to tell his story, which DH says you could tell he was remembering, and not making it up as he went along, then he went back to class with reassurances that he was not in trouble, and if anyone was heard or reported to be teasing, they would react fast.After this, DHT said he will look into things further and I'm afraid DH got a bit angry at this point, and said he had had 3 days to "look into things", and if we had not heard anything satisfactory by the end of the week, a formal complaint would be made, and we would take it to the LEA.he also pointed out again that if it had been male adult/female pupil, things would have been taken a lot more seriously, and, in our opinion, this was just as serious a situation, he also said about DS1 not trusting this woman anymore, and how that will affect him in future with his dealings with teachers. DHT then started wittering on about their recent very good Ofsted report on pastural care, to which DH responded he didnt give a damm about their Ofsted status, just how his son had been treated! It is at that point that things were left, and we shall see what happens

Oh dear, not a very good response then?

I wouldn't pin all your hopes on the LEA either, in my experience it'll just turn into a viscous circle with you being pinballed back and forth between the teachers/HT/LEA until they grind you down.

Oooh! I like your husband OP!

well done your DH, it sounds like he has lit a fire under them, I would expect they will look into things a bit more rigorously now.

I feel so sad for your DS. He must have been heartbroken and very upset to not get on the school bus.

That woman cannot be trusted to teach children. What she said was perverse.

Good for your DH for not allowing the DHT to back-track out of it.

Well done OP's DH!

DHT is maintaining that Misiss A did not say what we had heard

So your son is lying now, that's nice.

did she ask any of the other class members what was said?

OP are there any children in your ds class who would be willing to give evidence not necessarily in court but if it comes down to who witnessed or heard the conversation ? What about the TA would she willing to come reiterate what the teacher said ? I think now is the time to start looking at this area more seriuosly as i can see the school is now starting to close ranks,

Your DH was brilliant, OP, and he has done the right thing.

I know it isn't the same but we ended up removing our children from school as ds was being bullied and school were fucking useless. The bullies were on statements/in foster care and there was no way they were kicking them out. We removed out child and then they started on our daughter so we took all of them out. Complained. Went higher. Got crappy letter "all procedures have been followed." Unbelievable.

Well done to MrFuriousP! It's imperative that the school know you're not going to roll over and allow a political "misheard" be the conclusion to this sorry incident. Also there is the pretty important matter that MissA knew full well she'd said something very wrong because she tried to get your DS (in front of a TA and another teacher) to forget all about it and come back to class.

The point about male teacher / female pupil is absolutely spot on. They'd be absolute hell to pay and this situation is no different whatsoever.

DHT then started wittering on about their recent very good Ofsted report on pastural care Great - glad to hear it - let's see some evidence of it then!

Good Luck OP. Think this one might run and run for you....hope your DS is fine.

• sorry - There would be hell to pay.....

Gunznroses No, they havent talked to the other kids in the class yet, which is what really annoyed me, they could have done this yesterday, but they said they wanted to hear DS's version first. I cant see why this would make a difference, they are taking witness statements, not "testing" them to see who tells the biggest whopper! Surely talking to them when DS wasnt around would have been better - less chance of accusations of collusion etc.

Did they actually say garden leave or sick leave? Garden leave is where someone resigns or is sacked and they leave their job before the end of their notice period.

Also well done MrFuriousP for not allowing the school to try to gloss over things.

Sick leave is what was said, so I expect she will be back, hoping it has all blown over in the mean time, ok, she may genuinely be unwell, but, again, it is all very convenient.

I must admit, DH has surprised me a little on this one, he usually leaves any school related problems to me, and has said before that children can exaggerate to make themselves look better, but he is 100% convinced that, this time, DS1 is telling the absolute truth, as he didn't coemrunning home to tell us, but kept it bottled up until we asked specific questions.
By the way, DS2 is on a computer/xbox ban for winding his brother up - DH has changed the passwords, and wont even tell me in case I cave under the persistant whining/tantrums/door slamming which will ensue from that!

'they could have done this yesterday, but they said they wanted to hear DS's version first.'

Wanted to see if they could pressure him into agreeing it wasn't the teacher who said it more like.

Or waiting to see how seriously you and your DH were taking it.

Asking the other children is an admission they think it could have happened, if they're trying it on that wouldn't look good.

My DH is the same - but when he goes in to bat for DS it's serious!

I wonder if you should follow up the conversation this morning with an email detailing what was discussed - particularly that you expect some kind of decision / action by the end of the week - and that you're looking to contact the LEA. You could copy and paste some pertinent bits the ofsed report - saying you hope your DS will benefit from some of their reported pastoral care etc.....

Is there a reason why the DHT is dealing with this - hasn't the HT got themselves involved yet? I'd say they should be emailed too.