To want his teacher do more than just apologise?

[FuriousP]

Sorry long post.I have namechanged for obvious reasons!
My son is a new Yr7 at High School, he has been loving classes, and especially those with a certain teacher, he has come home raving about how good her lessons are etc.
Last Friday, I had a very worrying call from his brother (DS2) to say DS1 had been upset by a teacher at school, and was so embarrassed he hadn't got the bus home, and was going to try to walk to his dads palce of work (only 1.5mile, but DS's dont really know the town where the school is very well, and certainly would not be sure of the walking route to that workplace) I tried to ring DS1, only to find his phone was out of power, so immediatly left work and drove to the school, only to find DS2 had got the late bus home instead (couldnt find dads, so went back and caught it, thank god)
It turns out that the beloved teacher had seen him fiddling under the desk (his pen had broken, he was trying to put it back together), and said "DS1, there is only one reason for your hand to be under your desk, and you having a big smile on your face, you are obviously playing with your willy!" and the whole class laughed at him My DS gets teased quite a lot as he has a few minor physical disability issues anyway, and found this totally humiliating, so burst into tears, and the TA took him out of nclass and sat with him outside to calm him down. Teacher then came out and said "Sorry, I shouldnt have said that, but lets not make an issue of it, shall we?" all DS wanted to know was why she had done this to him, which she wouldn't (or could'nt!) answer. The bell went for end of school, and all kids came out of class, still talking about incident and laughing, adn at that point DS had made the decision not to get on the bus.
When I got home and heard this, I tried to ring school, but only got answering machine, then at 6pm, I had a phone call from the school Deputy Head Teacher, apparently the TA had gone to him and reported the incident, along with another teacher who had heard this woman talking to DS in the corridor, and DHT, was investigating, and wanted to know if an apology was enough, or did we want more, as apparently this teacher was already under warning for "inappropriate behaviour"!
DS is very upset still, he is worried that the teasing will get worse, and everybody will say he was playing with himself in class, but doesnt want teacher to get sacked, what do I say I want to happen, as, personally I want her hung out to dry for hurting my sons feelings so much, but also want to repect sons wishes?? Thanks for reading this, any opinions welcome (puts on hard hat!)

When DD1 was much younger something similar happened at school and we quite rightly questioned whether it happened as she said given how things sometimes come across when they're children..

In the end we came to the conclusion that we had no choice but to believe her, the alternative is parents not listening to their children when they're telling them something sexually inappropriate has happened.

Backing your DS without question doesn't mean you can't accept evidence that it happened otherwise, but your loyalty lies with him until that's given to you.

Agree with backing it up with an email, and probably start writing down who you've spoken to/when/what was said, it makes it easier to keep track and straight in your head.

Definitely follow up in writing as Dye says - it's a pain but worth it. Maybe keep your powder dry re the LEA so you've got something to up the ante with if the school continues to try and minimise though.

The thing that makes me really cross on your behalf is that it's not even a case of DS's word vs teacher's. TA and another teacher were the ones who reported - the complaint didn't even issue from you in the first place!
How shabby of the school to throw doubt on your son in these circs. I would go in hard at this point to make sure they don't do this to him again.

Just to reassure you, have asked my yr7 DS and the four (very different) friends who have come home with him today what they think of the incident and they would all be angry and upset. All were shocked that any member of school staff would say something like that.

Three of these are pretty confident, rambunctious kids too. I think those who would be able to laugh this off are in a very small minority.
Your DS is handling this so well. Very impressed.

Stand firm and raise hell!

I agree with PomBearWithAnOFRS, she should apologise to your son and then to the whole class. She needs to make the kids understand that it wasn't true and her behaviour was very inappropriate. Don't they get enough teasing at school from other kids? do the teachers have to add to it... Poor DS. I hope he recovers from it once she has apologised..Good luck

Just had phone all from DHT! They spoke to the other kids in class, and 4 collaborated DS1s version, others weren't quite sure who said what, DHT has now admitted that something "untoward" was said, and MissA has also said she can't remember saying exactly that, but she may have said something wrong "in the heat of the moment!" She has agreed to give a full apology to DS1 as she really liked him and hadn't meant to upset him so much, and she is going for additional training as well! DS1 doesn't want an apology to the class, he just wants to forget the matter. The previous problem she had was apparently not about something she had said to a pupil, but how she had dealt with a bullying problem. There will be an entry put on her record.
DH and I are happy with this result, because, at the end of the day, she seems to be a good teacher of her subject, and the kids are enthusiastic about her lessons, she just needs to think about how she speaks and disciplines kids, which is what the training is about. I hope that this will be the end of the matter, and we can all move on.

Sounds like a good result in the end. An appropriate bollocking but not over the top.

Obviously a lot was done today after DH went in, and it must have gone on quite late, as it was almost 8pm when we got the call.

Thank you everyone for your outrage and support on this thread. My DH an I really appreciate it, and I'm sure DS1 would too if he knew( mind you, he would probably die of embarrassment first!)
Yes, I think this is a appropriate result, we didn't have to make a formal complaint, and, hopefully, we won't be branded "problem parents" so early in our dealings with the school, as we never made the initial complaint, and did try to leave it to them to sort out internally, but just got angry when this was not seemingly going forward. After all, our DS's have another 5-6 years there.

Yes, that is a good response. And you haven't been that parent, but you have shown that you take things seriously too.

Hope teacher gets her shit together.

I think it's a bit sad that DHT has to be 'encouraged' to accept this is fact and take action. Would have been far better if the investigation and commitment to it had come from school - smacks of a cover up philosophy which is very disappointing.

I agree that this is acceptable but don't think it's satisfactory (if that makes sense)

It's good they've changed their tune, even though the 'in the heat of the moment' is a total load of old crud - heat of what fucking moment??

But aside from my continued outrage on your behalf so long as you feel comfortable they've addressed it that's all that matters.

I had the same worries about being the problem parent so early on as well when I had to approach DD1 school about bullying a couple of weeks ago, but they were spot on thankfully.

I think the response sounds good and proportionate. What she said was clearly highly inappropriate and humiliating for your son but since she seems to be a good teacher in other ways some of the baying for blood seen on this thread was disproportionate IMO.

TBH though, I suspect quite a lot of teachers have make this kind of comment (though to much older children and in a far more subtle way)

If you think there are lots of teachers making subtle sexual innuendos to the children they're teaching, don't you see that as a problem Domino?

What makes you suspect they do?

Being a good teacher in one way does not give them licence to behave inappropriately in other ways.

'What makes you suspect they do?'

I don't suspect it actually I know that it happens. I discussed the mumsnet thread with a couple of girls from Year 13, they were shocked that a teacher would say it to a Year 7 but said that quite a few male teachers said it to boys who were playing with their phones under the table in year 10/11. Phone are totally banned in my school. The teachers they mentioned are all very well respected and knew which boys it would work well with. If the teacher had asked the child to stop texting they would have been met with an angry response but their comment got a smile and a phone put away. I do think that sometimes you have to use slightly unorthodox methods when working with older teenagers in comprehensive schools. (though this is not an approach I would take myself)

If she tried to effectively bully you by saying ofsted said their pastoral care was good and they are obviously proud of the fact, I would hit them where it hurts.

I would say that you are disgusted by the lack of pastoral care shown towards your ds in the school's handling of this, apart from the ta's initial response helping your ds and her reporting of the incident. Subsequent to that they have reacted very badly; definitely seem to be more back-covering themselves rather than supporting your son. Definitely not the pastoral care that the dht was saying was on offer to all other members of school apparently.

I would say that, unless they start to behave decently, respectfully and honourably towards your ds, you will be contacting ofsted to make a formal complaint about how bad their pastoral care was in regard to inappropriate sexual bullying of your ds by a teacher was. And that regardless you will be talking to them for advice to find out how you can get the school to respond appropriately.

I would also say that you are going to be talking to your local police to report this. As has been said, if it was a male teacher and female pupil, it would have been treated a whole lot more seriously. Tell them that it is their mismanagement of this that is causing you to do this - they will not like this going out of school and may well buck up their ideas. I don't know what the legalities of these things are or what the police can do, but say, even pending a proper investigation, the police say that the teacher couldn't go within 100m of your son, would reflect badly on the school and also satisfyingly cause them an administrative nightmare.

Sounds like your ds is a real credit to you in the way he is handling this though. Hope you manage to get a proper response from the school and they do not manage to just happen to start moving teachers around and bully the TA to stop her telling the truth etc, and that they face up to the problem and deal with it properly.

Arrgh. That will teach me to finish a half post on my phone from several hours earlier without checking to see if the thread has moved on which it has quite considerably.

When I started typing the op hadn't posted her latest updates so kind of negates some of what I typed.

Op, glad to see you are happy with the result from school.

However, I would Seriously still think about putting in a complaint to ofsted regarding both the incident and the way it was handled badly mismanaged by the school. That way they will look at the school a bit more carefully when they are there for their next inspection.

I hope everything has now been sorted out for your son.

My only comment is that much of this has been done by phone/meetings with little paper trail. If I were you I would put in writing - email or letter - a short summary of what you understand has happened and what is the final situation (ie what the DHT said to you in the last phone call) and send it to them, perhaps asking them to confirm that your understanding is correct (ie proof they got your letter/email).

The school do seem tempted to play this down. Having a summary of the final position in writing means that if anything else ever happens in the future you have more of a leg to stand on.

I'm glad it seems to be sorted Furious and your ds can move on from this.

FuriousP
Glad things look like they're being sorted out for your DS.
Good can come out of this type of situation. DS had an issue when he was around 11 with his form tutor - continually being picked on and punished, but DS was (is) pretty robust, so did stand up for himself. Having gone through the formal complaint with the Head, this tutor was spoken to. He apologised to DS and they agreed to work together and try to respect each other, and it seemed to genuinely work. So the tutor learned not to be a prat, and DS learned that bad situations can change if you put enough effort into them.

Agree wholeheartedly with Mmmnotsure

The school and any organisation have a policy of if it isn't written down...didn't happen. Proof not truth is oft bandied around!

Mmmnotsure Thanks for the advice. I have now sent an email to the DHT and outlined what has been investigated, what was concluded, and asked him for written confirmation of this outcome. I hope that this will focus him a bit.
By the way, we have found that it is part of this DHT remit that he deals with any internal complaints until they become a formal complaint, at which point the HT takes over, but she is 'kept in the loop' so to speak. I suppose it is easier for them to share administrative problems around in a bigger school. He Is also the DHT who covers the year groups 7-9, the other one deals with problems with the older kids.

I am happy for you all.

You both handled things brilliantly!

Thst teacher is vile.

Furiousp I bet you're exhausted with all of this - and having to keep everyone posted on here! I'm sending your DS all kinds of good vibes cause feel so bad for the poor little thing. The school will of course be relying on your reluctance to create a bad relationship with them early on and so you're walking a tight rope between doing right by your DS/not dragging things out. Great if this woman knows her stuff and engages the kids, but she must surely be an insensitive soul. I hope this has frightened her enough to leave off with what passes for witticisms in her head. I wonder which part of her brain it is that functions well?

Please do as Mmm suggests and make sure you keep a paper trail in case you have any further problems. You have to be able to produce something in writing. People will lie when they're up against it. Also well done your DP for disciplining DS2 where it hurts so that this incident doesn't become part of DS2's arsenal in the battle of the adolescents.

I'm a teacher and I think that's appalling and worrying inappropriate - no teacher in their right mind would make a comment like that. I think she needs moving out of teaching - the comment "Let's not make an issue of it " seals the deal - she knows she's wrong but takes advantage if her position and his vulnerability there. I think the head wants rid of her too.

I hope you got a written reply from DHT. Throughout this I have wondered why the HT isn't dealing with it, I think as you haven't made a formal complaint they are playing it down as much as possible and nothing in writing will ensure this can 'disappear' if they need it to so do chase them up if you don't get a written reply to your email.

Your DS sounds very well rounded and mature, this hopefully won't cause him any long term problems at school.