Is my husband a massive idiot or do I owe him an apology?

[obvioussockpuppet]

DS (5) has a real intolerance to anything mint flavoured. He says it burns his mouth/gives him a poorly throat so I tend to buy him strawberry flavoured toothpaste or similar. I did an online shop a few weeks back and they sent me mint toothpaste as a substitute for strawberry. Rather than chuck the mint stuff out, I put it in our bathroom cabinet with the intention of giving it to my mate for her DCs. It is still in there.

A few night back, DH accidentally brushed DS's teeth with the mint stuff and DS really sobbed. He just hates mint, really really hates it. So last night, DH tells DS he is having his teeth cleaned with the mint toothpaste Ds obviously protests but DH then proceeds to make him have his teeth cleaned with it. DS cries loudly so I go upstairs to see why he is making him use the fucking toothpaste.

I snatched the toothbrush off DH and washed the mint stuff off, then gave him the strawberry stuff to clean his teeth. DH then starts saying that DS is crying to "play us off against each other" he is "crying for attention" "he cries for nothing" I said that actually I think it is borderlining on abuse to force a child to consume something that provokes such a violent reaction in them. DH is a vegetarian, would he like it if I stuffed a wodge of wafer thin ham in his trap?

We didn't speak for the rest of the night and he has just text me saying that what I said was serious (about borderline abuse) but I think I am right. I also said he is power-pissed where DS is concerned. I hate hearing my little boy sobbing over something as lame as toothpaste and I WILL stand up for him! Fancy making him use that toothpaste is he hates it that much.

It sounds petty written down.

I am a regular under a NC by the way because I am planning on showing DH this thread.

Thank you Nigel

i think your husband is a massive idiot. He should at the very least respect that his son doesnt like something, so why force him to use it? needless and petty and i would have been sitting on my hands so as not to lamp him one.

perhaps you could ask him how he would feel if the tables were turned and someone forced him to eat a meal that wasnt vegetarian because they had the same attitude?

its harmless to let him clean his teeth with his choice of paste. Your DH is petty and being a bully.

It sounds as if your DH is not so much choosing his battles but choosing to pick them. Whether or not your DS is allergic to mint is immaterial, right now he dislikes and taste and there's no reason to force it on him. Especially deliberately and when there was an acceptable alternative available. So while it's never ideal to have a scene in front of your child, I expect I'd have done similarly in the heat of the moment. He's not behaved reasonably over this. At all.

The problem with power-crazed parenting is that it does little more than produce fear and, eventually resentment. Once resentment creeps in, respect flies straight out of the window. But then I've never understood why it is so wrong to respect your children's preferences.

It sounds cruel. It sounds part of a wider issue.

I would ask your DH why he felt the need to persist in "having his own way" (using the mint toothpaste) despite knowing this would cause his son distress.

I would ask him why feeling in control of his son is so important to him that he is willing to cause distress to have that feeling.

Nasty, unnecessary, just going on a power trip because he can. He's pissed off that your DS dares to assert himself. Well why shouldn't he? I've always hated mint, I still buy myself special toothpaste and I'm 32.

Poor kid I'm with you on this OP.
Dd has an aversion to mint too, I didn't know any other kids with this, she doesn't even like the smell any more, says it gives her a headache and the mint toothpaste gives her a sore mouth (so she says), strawberry toothpaste is a must.
I think your Dh was being a bully over this with your son. He knew he can't stand mint and used it anyway, thats just mean.

Thank you so much for all of the responses. Judging by the majority then I think that I am NBU, apart from the saying the abuse word but I will apologise for that tonight.

I'm not sure whether to show him this thread or not, I suppose it depends on how well our talk goes.

Also, can I just give another example of when I think that DH is heavy-handed and ask if I am BU here too?

Sometimes just before bath time, DS complains of being hungry. Usually I offer him toast or crackers with Dairylea or similar. DS takes this gladly and eats it. However if he asks DH before me, DH gets really arsey about it, accusing DS of just wanting to shovel his face with crisps/sweets. This is even before he has offered a 'healthy' snack and has had his offer rebuffed. He just assumes the worst, whereas I know if he offered what I offer, DS would be happy with that. We had a bit of a tiff over this the other night. :(

Good luck!

He does sound like a bully, did he get no say in anything growing up? Maybe he was told where where and what to do and was never allowed to ask for anything.

Op

Up until a few years ago I would of thought you were being had by your child,

All of the children I have, (mine and extras) had just got on with the toothbrushing thing, no real fuss, odd lazy brusher, but nothing really that was a problem.

then DD the last child, had a real sensitivity to "mint" toothpaste and the brushing, I probably was far to tough on her,many many horrible battles, and felt really awful when it turned out there was a real problem,

even though we take the children to the dentist a lot, she clearly had a problem, turns out that on some of her second teeth ,had formed without any enamel on, at some point when she was in the womb or just after birth,she had become exposed to a virus, and that was the result,

now I don't know if the sensitive mouth and the lack of enamel are connected(any MN dentist?), but of the two children I know that have had this sensitive mouth, both had a lack of enamel on second teeth, once sorted out they seem to improve,

why does toothpaste have to be mint anyway?

Parents are supposed to be loving. The stories of how angry he seems to be with his son all the time make me really sad :( We all get cross sometimes but he seems to think he has a right to be like this all the time.

Your DH sounds monumentally insecure. How pathetic to take his insecurities out on a 5 year old and then to blame the 5 year old for his own unreasonable behaviour.

You don't owe him an apology. What was the harm in allowing your ds to have the strawberry toothpaste and what was the benefit of forcing him to use one that he hates.
It caused a huge amount of distress to your little boy and for what? To show who the boss is. I just hate that kind of parenting.
I grew up in a similar household myself and as an adult I remember many incidents of a similar nature and bear a lot of resentment to my father as a result. Does your dh realise that this will happen and is likely to have a lifelong impact upon his relationship with his son if he chooses such an authoritarian, bullying style of parenting.
I know that we can all get cross from time to time and it can be frustrating caring for small children and sometimes it is necessary to be firm but not in this case.

Get your dh dog toothpaste, chicken flavour

Sorry but he shouldn't be doing bedtimes if he makes ds cry. That's when it's winding down time, to be nice and relaxed not upset.

He'll love it!

I find it quite disturbing and cruel that your DH deliberately chose to use the mint toothpaste the 2nd time, knowing how much it would distress your DS.

The first time was a mistake - fair enough. And all of us have been harsher (verbally) than we would have intended with a child in the heat of an argument or melt-down, then regretted it. But your DH deliberately set out to subject your DS to something really unpleasant in a cold-blooded way, as some sort of power trip. That was really nasty. He sounds like a twunt.

Your DH does seem to see his role of father as 'being in command of' rather than 'being responsible for'. And he demands instant compliance because no child can possibly have thoughts and preferences of their own, can they?

He created a situation (insisting on the mint toothpaste) that would inevitably distress your son. Why? To teach his son to knuckle under? To (unreasonably) exert his authority?

He is a bully. And he is choosing to bully a small child, which I consider to be very cowardly. He has all the power in the father-son relationship, and he is choosing to ABUSE that power. Yes, abuse. You don't have to beat someone black and blue to abuse them.

We sometimes have this problem in our house. I can even relate to the toothbrushing. Whenever DH brushes the DCs teeth they end up crying. He says he's doing it well. I think he does it too hard and should stop if DCs upset. They never cry when I brush their teeth and I do it carefully too.

95% of the time DH is a lovely dad but sometimes he just digs his heels in and makes a mountain out of a mole hill. I think it's a bit bullying; he thinks he's not letting DCs 'get away with things'.

But I have learned not to react at the moment it's happening. DH responds better when I call him on it later. I ask him to see it from DCs point of view. I think he thinks our household is going to go to pieces if he doesn't put his foot down sometimes. Truth is the kids are fine, do what they're asked most of the time, and don't need such an inflexible approach.

I know that deep down we share the same values about parenting and want the same things for our DCs but sometimes go at it slightly different ways. I bite my tongue on small things (like I feel he should) and save the sharp side of my tongue for him when I think he's gone too far. It means he listens when I do.

I'm a firm believer in the united front school of parenting, Back eachother up and disagree later if necessary. After all we all make bad parenting choices occasionally. But this only works if you have confidence that your partner is acting with the child's best interest at heart. you need to talk about why he's behaving like this. If he believes in a stricter style of parenting than you currently have in your household, that's fine but if that's the case you need to point out strongly that abusing his power as an adult in this way has no part in that. You need to find common ground in your parenting. If he can't see what he's done wrong and can't have a constructive talk about changing his behaviour going forward I would be questioning if it was possible to co-parent with him.

Haven't read the whole thread but hypersensitivity to mint in toothpastes and mouthwash is well known, it is a real burning sensation. My nephew had loads of tiny ulcers, the dentist said to try and change toothpaste and they went. Loads if you google it.

Does DS clean his own teeth, or does he normally receive help ?

You're right, but you're coming on too strong. Your DH may well be insecure in his parenting because you're so forceful. Men are quite wimpish that way - they like to feel the strongest. Insecurity will cause him to be afraid of losing his place in the family and afraid of having his authority as a parent undermined. He made an error of judgement in forcing the toothpaste issue, but you probably acted out his worst nightmare by wearing the trousers in front of his son. IMO, you were absolutely right to feel DS wasn't being treated right. But in the grand scheme of things, it isn't going to do him the damage that you and your DH rowing constantly will do.

So it would have been better to bring the subject up with DH away from DS, perhaps by calling him out of the bathroom and asking him pleasantly to go for the strawberry one as you have a strong feeling that's the right way to go. (In our house, DH tends to capitulate when I have a strong feeling, as he's learnt there are usually good reasons for it! That said, there are plenty of issues over which he doesn't give a damn what I feel :) Or bring it up later with him, saying you feel it's a big deal.

And what if your DH is right and there's an element of DS playing you guys off each other? If your parenting is this fractured generally, it would be almost impossible for him to avoid it. You need to talk about that. And get off your high horse. There are probably plenty of occasions when you snap and your DH is the more tender one.

OP - on your AIBU question over the spot of supper before bath issue. YANBU.

Your DH assumes the worst, incorrectly, he should start to use the evidence of his eyes not the assumptions of his own issues, which is what it seems like to me.

What happened to giving the benefit of the doubt until proven wrong for him? Seems like he is determined to believe his son is a wilful manipulative attention seeker even though he is not.

I think he should have a good look at himself and ask if that is fair on a brand new little person who has not earned the labels he is being given.