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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not understand why any woman would not want to be a feminist?

574 replies

EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 16/09/2012 23:33

Seriously why would you want to be treated worse than men?

OP posts:
Hanah40 · 17/09/2012 10:39

"I would be bothered, but no more bothered than I would be about the barriers that would be in my sons way if he wanted to be a nursery nurse, or a SAHD."

Hmmmm, fair enough.

pigletmania · 17/09/2012 10:40

If dd wanted to be an Engineer, Hairdresser, Doctor, PA I would support her 100 per cent. I hope that she does not have barriers against her but I guess she will not because she is female but due to disability

florencejon · 17/09/2012 10:41

Freddos - "I would be bothered, but no more bothered than I would be about the barriers that would be in my sons way if he wanted to be a nursery nurse, or a SAHD."

Exactly, which is why we need to focus on equality/choice for all rather than feminism.

kim147 · 17/09/2012 10:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

threeOrangesocksmorgan · 17/09/2012 10:42

I don't want to be a "feminist"
I don't like the label and tbh I don't like the idea that all men can be lumped together either

Original poster
EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 17/09/2012 10:42

Feminism is a broad church. Radical feminism is one strand of it. But it is as one poster says like saying you refuse to be religious because you disagree with one religion. Obviously if you are religious you have to believe in god, but lots of other things religious people disagree on.

It is exactly the same with feminism. With feminism you have to agree that women women are not inferior to men and should not be treated in that way. But after that, there is lots of disagreement.

OP posts:
Original poster
EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 17/09/2012 10:43

By the way, patrirachy just means male dominated society. Literal translation is - rule of the fathers. It sounds a fancy theoretical term than it actually is.

OP posts:
OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos · 17/09/2012 10:43

Florence, my sentiments exactly.

As long as promoting equality comes under the guise of feminism and is all about women and nothing to do with men's equal opportunities too, then it's not a movement I want to be part of.

Equality yes. Feminism, no thanks.

Mrsjay · 17/09/2012 10:45

I think it is a bit confusing when the feminists fight amongst themselves Confused I am a feminist because I believe women should be treated with respect and have equality and choice, but the choices I have made would rile some feminist Hmm

Hanah40 · 17/09/2012 10:47

Mhhh. I regard feminism as equality for all. But as I said, joining a feminist group disabused me of the notion that all feminists are pro equality.

One lady in the group suggested that attractive underwear was oppressive to women, and seemed to be under the impression that husbands forced women to wear lacy thongs at all times. Most hetero ladies I know stick to M&S briefs and break out the lingerie on special occasions, but hey.

Hanah40 · 17/09/2012 10:48

Mrsjay - I've been surprised. As I said, my choice to work full time has riled some feminists, because it 'reinforces the patriarchal system of capitalism'.

Erm, ok.

GoldShip · 17/09/2012 10:48

Im in agreement with worra. I've spoke to quite a few feminists on here who have completely put me off having anything to do with them. Especially when they feel they have to take my rights away to get what they want

KenLeeeeeee · 17/09/2012 10:49

I think it is a bit confusing when the feminists fight amongst themselves I am a feminist because I believe women should be treated with respect and have equality and choice, but the choices I have made would rile some feminist

This. I do identify myself as a feminist because of how I view the world and the ongoing oppression of women, BUT I'm always very afraid to admit that in the company of more hardcore feminists in case they laugh at me!

Mrsjay · 17/09/2012 10:49

. As I said, my choice to work full time has riled some feminists, because it 'reinforces the patriarchal system of capitalism'.

WHAT Confused

OTheHugeManatee · 17/09/2012 10:51

Didn't you know you can't win, Hanah? If you are a SAHM then you're setting a poor example to your daughters and reinforcing the hegemonic gender relations, but if you go out and get a job and are wildly successful you're reinforcing the patriarchal system of capitalism. It's like those magazines where if a sleb gains weight she's let herself go but if she loses it she's mentally ill with anorexia.

Kayano · 17/09/2012 10:52

It's when they try and tell you that you have moral issues because you shave our armpits or bought your dd a pink dress that people go Hmm

Really?

Women are getting killed and beaten because they were raped or trafficked into the porn industry and you want to discuss my free choice over my armpits?! And imply I have no morals and/or am a stupid sheep if I do it? It's annoying.

Women didn't fight and die for me to be dictated To and guilted into things by other women, they did it so I can CHOOSE

Feminism does need a reboot because that sort of stuff IS what's its associated with now

Dahlen · 17/09/2012 10:53

I am feminist, though if I was describing myself it would appear further down the list of descriptive terms simply because my feminist views form only a small part of the person I am.

Despite the huge advances made in recent years I think we still have a long way to go - particularly in regard to the loss of economic and social power experienced by many women when they become mothers.

StarlightMcKenzie · 17/09/2012 10:53

I am a feminist, but didn't know I was until I came on MN.

Mrsjay · 17/09/2012 11:01

I have to agree with kayo who cares if our daughters like Barbie or pink dresses as long as we parent them to have a wider view of the world and whats going on they can be wonderful women who care and can make a difference even if they are waxed and manicured Grin

handbagCrab · 17/09/2012 11:01

Agree with wordfactory

I could be a mum and a part time CEO. I could job share with another mum, or a dad, or a single person or whoever. But it's not going to happen because the world is not currently set up like that. Doesn't make the current set up right or the way things should be.

SomersetONeil · 17/09/2012 11:10

YANBU, I'm a feminist and proud of it.

I shave my legs, under my arms, I tend my lady garden, I dye my hair, pluck my eyebrows, wear make-up, love clothes and fashion. Spend ludicrous sums of money on pairs of jeans, follow fashion blogs. Wear heels. I look 'right', in the way that society seems women should look right. I could've got by on my looks - in my 20s at least Grin - if I didn't have better things to fall back on.

I do all sorts of contrived things which men don't do and don't see the slightest need to do. I love doing most of these things. I choose to do them inasmuch as I'm fully cogniscant that society has conditioned me to 'choose' to do them.

I'm white, middle class, post-grad educated, married with two children, earn a six-figure salary, live-in help - I have absolutely zero need for feminism in the sense that being female has never ostensibly held me back.

But I have an innate sense of fairness and I think anyone who has a clue, an education, had their consciousness raised, is well-read, is broad-minded and who questions the world can't help but see that the two genders simply are not treated the same way. In some societies that is far more eye-wateringly obvious than others. But even in our own it is marked. Once short perusal of the relationship board proves that.

I have a wonderful DH, a lovely brother, and loving and ever-present father. My FIL is lovely, my BIls are. I have a swath of amazing men friends, many of whom are my DH's old friend. I love men. Think they're fab. Well, I think lovely, decent, kind men are fab, and that every woman deserves one of those men. I am as far from a rabid man-hater as it's possible to get.

And I will always, until I draw my last breath, proudly self-identify as a feminist. And feel a bit sorry for women who don't. :-/ And who take for granted all the privileges that earlier generations of feminists have won us. Sorry, but I do. I see you arguing on threads and I just want to yank the blinkers from your eyes and tell you to cop on to yourself!

You think I'm pigeon-holed, given all of the above? Your issue; not mine. I know who I am and I know what I like and what I do. I don't fit some ludicrous preconceived idea of a feminist that mean nothing to anyone except those who want to discredit it, or sweep it under the carpet because identifying as such means they might have to question their lives (being a feminist doesn't suddenly - gasp - mean you have to stop shaving your legs if you don't want to. It just encourages you to question why you do). I'm a feminist because that's part of who I am.

Hanah40 · 17/09/2012 11:12

"who cares if our daughters like Barbie or pink dresses"

Definitely! I'd also love it if that statement applied to our sons :)

ballroompink · 17/09/2012 11:13

exoticfruits just because you know a lot of 'lovely men' it doesn't mean that life is like that for everyone. Unfortunately it's not about individuals, it's about society and power. Patriarchy is bad for men too.

Original poster
EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 17/09/2012 11:13

Somerset - totally agree!!!

OP posts:
beancurd · 17/09/2012 11:15

Exactly somersetoneil.