To not understand why any woman would not want to be a feminist?

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

Seriously why would you want to be treated worse than men?

Some jobs just don't lend themselves to part time or job shares though. That's not because they are anti women, it's just because women tend to strive for a better work/life balance than many men do.

So if one person is prepared to put in extra hours and stay in the office until 10pm on a regular basis and one isn't, then it's more likely that the person who is prepared to dedicate more free time will get the job. Sex is irrelevant.

It only become relevant because of what each gender tends to want out of life.

Somerset, you are being incredibly hypocritical.

you think I'm pigeon holed, given all of the above? Your issue, not mine

It works both ways.

You have no need to feel sorry for me or take my blinkers away from my eyes because I don't identify with feminism. If you want to put me in a non feminist pigeon-hole, then that is your issue. Not mine.

Feminism needs a new name I think

What about 'stop taking the fucking piss-ists

But if I labelled myself as a 'Stop taking the fucking piss-ist', that would be ok until the extremists jumped on the bandwagon again and started trying to tell me how I should live my life by their rules.

That really does take the piss and the ironic thing is, these extremists just can't see that.

You can change the name of something time and time again...but no matter how often feminism (or anything else) gets re-branded, some people will always ruin the cause they so passionately believe in by...well taking the fucking piss really

I'm smiling here but it is really quite sad.

"...it's just because women tend to strive for a better work/life balance than many men do."

Why do women strive for a better work/life balance?

"It only become relevant because of what each gender tends to want out of life."

Why does each gender 'tend' to want different things out of life?

Question it....! Don't just take stuff at face value. Scratch beneath the surface, delve a little deeper, look at the bigger picture. Think.

I can't identify as a feminist because of the word as I have seen how much inequality there is in the law regarding men trying to get custody of children from watching my mum's appalling behaviour that takes feminism back 50 years

Although I think that feminism was a force for good when it first started out, now is the time to change and include men in gender equality debates. Often they can provide a lot of insight into issues that women perhaps might not have considered and it normalises male/female interaction. I can't stand it when men are left out of important debates just because women feel like it's nothing to do with them.

By the way- nice thread OP

I am me - I worked for the coastguard service, the government in worldwide computer networks engineering - at a very high grade which I worked bloody hard for, I am now a SAHM and a dinner lady (and tutor). I made my choices and I went out there and made it happen.... The worldof work in the UK is set up just fine if you want to push hard enough - whether male or female (or any in between)

I don't give a monkeys about supposed feminist views of pink/shaving armpits/looking nice for my man/having doors opened/girly bleedin lego (I had lego Belville AND meccano) etc

I am extremely grateful to those who have trail blazed, and got us all the right to vote and own property (not just a feminist issue!) and I very much appreciate those who fought for equal pay for equal jobs...

What I don't like is the whingy bickering that seems to be associated with "being a feminist", I do not like the female supremacists - the "it's wrong because it was thought up by a man" type things.

In this country we are lucky, yes it is patriarchal, but my goodness we have choices - I am not a CEO - not because I am being prevented from trying to be so - but because I don't want to - I do not want to give up my life to a job.

I don't feel the need to question it. Other peoples life choices are their business, I have more interest in other things. I know why I don't want to be at work all the time, and I know that my husband might prefer the opportunity to do what I do. But his maleness has told him that he should be the one to go out to work most and he accepts that.

Why should I question why men and women want different things in the name of feminism? Surely it would be more accurate and more interesting to do it for equality, and for things to change for men as much as they could potentially change for women?

Amybelle, I hear this a lot, but tbh, I've found it goes far too far the other way. It seems sometimes like the courts - and the other parent - bend over backwards to allow abusive, absent parents to see their children.

The absent parent can have beaten the primary carer - but if they haven't hit the kids, that's irrelevant, and the victim of domestic abuse will likely have to let their kids visit someone who abused them.

They can pay nothing - and get away with it, because the primary carer has to pay the CSA to chase the absent parent. They can be late, or not turn up, and get multiple second chances, while the other parent has to explain to the kids why mummy or daddy couldn't be arsed to see them.

I don't want to be a CEO! I want to be a dinner lady!

Is this the rallying cry of mothers in 2012?

I have nothing against CEOs or dinner ladies btw. My gran was a dinner lady as it fitted around her kids...

And anyway, who the fuck says feminists don't like pink or having a door opened or shave their armpits????

This is just bullshit.

Sexists try to dress up feminism as somehting either daft (oh those silly girls worring about Lego) or evil (oh those horrible women want to denigrate men and force all women into work).

But this is just sexists manipulating you!!!!!!!! Don't fall for this bullshit peeps!!!!!!!

The same people try to manipulate us into thinking all Muslims are terrorists who wnat to impose sharia law in the UK. Don't fall for it!!!!

The absolute number one thing that sexists want to do, is get women to turn away from feminism. If they can get the very people who have the most to gain from feminism to support the other team then they are laughing. They have us beat.

So I say, stand up and be proud to describe yourself as a feminist. Be you male or female. Be you dressed form head to toe in Dolce and Gabanna or be you in your dungarees...

And when people try to tell you what feminists are, you can laugh in their face and say I don't thinks so mate, cos actually I'm one myself.

Nb, not saying your dad was abusive. I've just been quite shocked that certain absent parents of my acquaintance (male and female) are still allowed to see their children.

Why can't CEOs be part time, job share, school hours, term time, flexible working, whatever?

Some jobs or parts of jobs can't be but others can. If you could be a term time, school hours CEO, would you still choose to be a dinner lady or work in school admin for example?

We do have some choices. But I want to live in a country where our girls are not raped or sexually assaulted - actually want it for both boys and girls, but women are raped way more than men. I want our daughters not to be sexually harassedw hen they walk down the street. I want to live somewhere where "jokes" about rape are not acceptable and nobody promnotes rape myths. I want our daughters not to be put down in conversation because they are female, etc etc.

Wordfactory: Yes!

Of course I believe that women should have the same opportunities as men (where it is possible) so I probably agree with the basic feminist idea and think we should appreciate the work many feminists did in the past to help women gain more respect and equality. But, I agree with others that 'feminism' probably needs rebranding to get away from the general image it gets viewed with. I also think the feminist birds here have put a lot of women off what feminism is. There are some great feminist posters but there are those who just come across as a load of boring bullies. and yes I have seen posters bullied and beaten down. Like others said, I've seen threads (some really serious ones not on the FWR board)derailed and taken over with the usual suspects drowning out everyone who disagrees until they are the only ones left on the thread congratulating each other for winning the argument and of course their superiority in being right. Then when anyone says this they get accused as being bullies, misogynists etc.

Saying that I've really enjoyed some of the threads and discussions there and have changed my mind on somethings and seriously challenged how I viewed things I had just taken for granted.

wordfactory is talking sense.

I don't give a monkeys who you question it for; you don't need to question it for anyone but yourself. :) Certainly not for feminism necessarily.

I'm just saying - question it. It's often quite enlightening.

EatsBrainsAndLeaves - definitely. I heard a story about a thirteen year old girl in her school uniform who was harassed by some grown men in a car. Who are these men that think it's okay to catcall a child?

There is actually a thread in the feminist board discussing what the term patriarchy means if anyone wants to know more. Is not full of theoretical language.

There is also a thread for people to ask questions about feminism - however basic you may fear they are. And it is about feminism generally, not radical feminism. And i say that as a radical feminist myself.

Handbag, personally, no. I woudont choose to be a part time term time CEO if it was possible.

But if it were possible, it would be as possible for me to do it as it would be for any man to do it. Or not. So it's nothing to do with women not having enough rights or not being seen as equal.

It's not feminism that discriminates against fathers. That's patriarchy and the assumption that women are inherently better at childcare than men. No feminist I know believes that.

It's a shame we have to consider dumbing down and rebranding various words, just because people are too thick to understand the definition of radical.

Anyone who also thinks that women are born wanting to dress in pink, wear make-up, shave their bodily hair and earn proportionately less than men in their lifetime is as deluded as those who think that men were born wanting to wear blue, fight in wars, hold doors open only for women, work all their lives and see their children for an average of an hour a day.

Hanah I know it goes far too far the other way- women have it so much worse still- but I think that 'family law' is still relatively young and needs a lot of work before it treats men and women equally.

My most recent quibble with how feminists treat men is when I went recently to a meeting at a local feminist group. A young, gay (not that that has anything to do with it), male student of gender equality wanted to join the group but was turned down as the people that ran the group wanted it's members 'to feel safe expressing their opinion'. It didn't seem right to me that a man who wanted to promote and help the cause should be so put down and made to feel like a threat.

Just cos some self identified feminists are bullying, hectoring, boring, does that mean we should ignore anything a feminist has to say?

Why not just ignore? Why give those people more importance than they actually have?

If you meet a football bore who thinks everyone who doesn't love man u is an idiot what do you do? Do you shy away from all football discussions and ardently protest that you don't identify as a football fan although you like the sport? Or do you think tosser and move on and ignore?

genuine question: why are there so many of these 'feminist' threads at the moment, where posters are saying, 'well, I believe in equality, but I'm not a feminist?'