To not understand why any woman would not want to be a feminist?

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

Seriously why would you want to be treated worse than men?

'I wouldn't call myself feminist because I don't agree with/want to be grouped with rad fems' seems to me like saying 'I wouldn't call myself religious because I don't agree with Hindus/Mormons/Scientologists/whatever'. No one expects you to agree with everyone you share a descriptor with

From what I see of some women, so depressing - its a mixture of laziness/lack of ambition/lack of motivation. They seem to sit around waiting until a man comes along to pay for them/run their lives, and then moan about him.

Unfortunately this attitude seems to encourage misogynism, not true masculinity.

OP - YADNBU! I don't get it either. Feminism (for *some people) seems to have become a dirty word synonymous with being man-hating, dungaree-wearing, and shaven headed.

I personally think this caricaturing of Feminism is a vicious tactic by misogynist conservatives trying to undermine the cause. Anyone who thinks women and men deserve to be treated equally is a Feminist in my eyes, whether you choose to label yourself so or not.

I self-identify as a Feminist, so does my DH and my DS! So does Bill Bailey. Admittedly, he's fairly mannish, and did once wear a pair of dungarees in an episode of Black Books, but he is also awesome.

Was this thread inspired by Caitlin Moran by any chance? I love her

I have come to the sad conclusion that some women actually like sexism.

They like to be told what to do. They like men to hav emore opportunities than women.

Quite simply they don't think women are equal to men.

So what if some women are happy to reinforce traditional roles within their family, women stay at home look after home and children whilst the man earns te bread so to speak, some women are quite happy with this and would not want to change it, does nt mean they feel men are more important than women and they don't believe inequal rights, just that it works for them and their family.

From an equality point of view, I acknowledge that due to a freak of geography and timing, I am incredibly fortunate to have been born where I was and when I was. Other women around the world, are not so fortunate. I believe that they are entitled to the same equality which I have and I will do whatever I can do to bring attention to their plight with the end goal of their having equal rights.

I support equal rights but do not identify with women who identify as being feminists.

To me, supporting equal rights means that I believe that a women should have the legal right to vote, to drive, to have a career, to have an education, to get divorced, to have control of her fertility, to not be forced into marriage, nor genital mutilation.

To me, feminism, means getting angry about Lego producing a set especially for girls, believing that the word, 'vagina' needs changing because it shows ownership by a man, giving abuse to a young woman who decides to enter a beauty competition.

Yes, not the dictionary definition of feminists at all, but whether it is your intention or not, that is the impression you give.

I am a stahm out of choice, dh field of occupation means that he earns more but I have no interest in software engineering, I am a community worker which obviously is lower paid. It works for us, I do want a different career ath in the future and hopefully when kids are older I would like to go into aviation

*because the word feminist...needs a\ rebrand !

what rumble said*

this

I wear make up every day, I wear clippy high heels. I am a sahm. I let dh drive when he is in the car. I do all the ironing. I like being bought jewellery and getting flowers or chocolates. Dh opens doors for me and pays when we eat out.

I am a feminist. Because I think that women should be able to chose wtf they want to do.

I think the version of feminism discussed on these boards can be perverse and aggressive. Telling other women what they think or how they should behave is ridiculous.

But every time I read 'oh but I just want to be pretty and have big strong men take care of me' I want to punch myself in the head. As I do when I read sahm/wohm threads. And 'my dh won't give me any money and I am in debt as I have to buy the kids shoes for school'.

Feminism needs a new name I think.

What about 'stop taking the fucking piss-ists'

Some on here are saying that they are sad that some women lie sexism and being told what to do, well the feminists are no different, telling women how tey should be and lead their lives.

In the commonsense definition of feminist, as someone who believes men and women should be equal, absolutely I can't see why anyone wouldn't want to be described thus.

But if 'feminist' is taken to mean someone who believes a whole load of paranoid cod-Marxist garbage about 'the patriarchy' then I can absolutely see why people wouldn't fancy it.

Exactly page that is why feminism has such a negative image

I don't think any woman wants women to have less opportunity than men, but I don't think they want to feel pressured into taking every opportunity that they can either. Lots and lots of us want to be able to have the traditional role in the family, to be able to spend time at home and only work part time. It doesn't matter to me whether I have an opportunity to become a CEO, because I don't want to be one.

I dont want to identify myself with a group who i feel do not respect my choices, dont respect the role i have made for myself within my family nor value other women as individuals who dont need them to preach their views at them.

I'm a feminist. I genuinely enjoy contributing equally and earning my own money, perhaps because I have experienced sexism in my life - not least seeing the way my father treated my mother. Not cruelly, but his wants and desires always took precedence. They both worked, but she did all the housework and all the DIY. They both seemed genuinely surprised when I studied hard and went to uni.

Like Pagwatch, I like high heels (though living in a cobbled town, I really can't be bothered most of the time), and like nice clothes. I find washing up tedious so I don't do it, but I do take the rubbish out and cook.

Putting your life completely in someone else's hands - by not having any qualifications or working skills - is, in my experience, a recipe for abuse and it leaves you incredibly vulnerable.

That said, some feminists I have met irritate the hell out of me, because not all feminists are the same. I've met the 'you can't be a feminist unless you're a vegan', 'you can't be a feminist if you shave', 'you can't be a feminist if you sleep with men'.

The worst, and most irritating, was the accusation that by wanting a career and financial security, as well as being outspoken and opinionated, I was 'adopting masculine traits' and that instead I should be quieter, calmer and volunteer, or work for a co-op.

Advice which seems remarkably similar to the attitudes of the Catholic Patriarchy I left at home with my parents, and decidedly anti-feminist!

Oh and in terms of "cod-Marxist garbage about 'the patriarchy" - Catholic Patriarchy is an actual doctrine, not a term of mine :)

"It doesn't matter to me whether I have an opportunity to become a CEO, because I don't want to be one."

What about if your daughters want to be one, and can't?

geegee888 - it can also be lack of opportunity.

If my daughters wanted to be one then I would expect them to work towards it. But I would also point out to them the the things they would have to sacrifice to get there. And if they are happy with that, then I would support them 100%.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos

Then that's great. But would you at that point be slightly bothered about the barriers that would be in their way - when a son would have fewer barriers?

Hanah - that wasn't a reference to your post but to a particular set of doctrines held by some feminists, and that seem in significant respects to have been lifted wholesale from Marxist theory. Y'know, all the stuff about hegemonic ideologies and women as a class. Each to their own, I mean, but IMO there are more enjoyable hobbies.

I believe in equal rights for men and women, and the freedom to choose the life that they want. If a woman wants to live the way Hanah described than its her choice if she is happy. Yes I have been to uni have graduate and postgrad degrees have been working until children came along. Yes I want the same for mt dd5 but her life path is uncertain as she has Autism.

I would be bothered, but no more bothered than I would be about the barriers that would be in my sons way if he wanted to be a nursery nurse, or a SAHD.

"but IMO there are more enjoyable hobbies."

Oh definitely, I know it wasn't a reference to my post, I thought i'd just better explain myself. My biggest frustration after joining - and before leaving - a feminist group was that it was constant discussion about how rubbish everything was. I'm very goal orientated and sitting around talking about how bad misogyny was, without doing anything practical about actual issues, was just depressing.

"Feminism needs a new name I think.

What about 'stop taking the fucking piss-ists' "

Totally agree pagwatch. The relationship board just depresses me. Not all the posts, but the ones where women say they are doing all the childcare and housework and what can they do about it, and some poster ALWAYS comes on and defends the fact that their male partner is obviously taking the piss.