To not understand why any woman would not want to be a feminist?

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

Seriously why would you want to be treated worse than men?

Empusa, all those things that you list are the things that I would list too. (I'd also add objectification to my list). I definitely see feminism as caring about racism and disablism. So basically, you say tomarto, I say tomayto!!

But let's not call the whole thing off !

Re. the matriarchy thing, I don't want a matriarchy, but I do believe that a matriarchy would be fairer on men than a patriarchy is on women. But that's a whole other debate!!

'You don't see the media trying to get illicit shots of William, do you?'

Well you might do if he was wandering around naked, in all fairness.

It is about generalising in experiences. So not all women have experienced street harassment e.g. wolf whistling, sexual comments from men, etc. But virtually all have. You need to generalise around classes for political purposes.

For example, how do you explain racism if you dont generalise? Racism talks about political classes as well. Otherwise it is all just individual experiences where a particular person has been really mean to you.

Just look at the ones of prince Harry, I also remember quite a lot of comments on prince Williams hair loss

empusa - I meant if you compare a disabled man and a a disabled woman , the woman would be worse off

Sigmund "So, why is generalizing within feminism acceptable?"

I agree this is problematic, but it's down to language. Take the idea of men and rapists. It's a tough one, because whilst the majority of men aren't rapists by a long shot, the majority of rapists are men. So, how do you express that? OTOH one doesn't want to lump all men in this category but OTOH to deny gender has anything to do with it would be ignoring the gendered nature of the problem and subsequently fail to find a solution.

i agree though that it is a problem but I'm not sure how to solve it.

Re. the shots of William, in this incident William was walking around just as naked as Kate: topless.

There are millions of women in this country alone. How could we discuss the general experience of women yet take into consideration every individual's story, quibbles and priorities? Suggestions would be good!

I suppose we can just put 'generally' or 'on average' in every feminist sentence, seems a bit defensive though.

Individual experience is what I'm interested in. You simply should not state that, re. street harassment that 'virtually all have' experienced it. Because how can you possibly know? In all honesty?

I think feminism blinkers people to the reality of other's everyday lives. A lot of people simply do not experience life in the way that feminists advocate, they really don't.

I can understand it, really I can. It's hard, once you have those feminist blinkers on, to see anything other than injustice handed out to women, and of course it's there, but not to the degree you believe it to be.

If I'm any kind of 'ist', I'm a 'me-ist'. Which is essentially what we all are at the end of the day.

messy - sorry, not caught up but am replying about your comment about equalists not believing that male domination exists.

I can only answer for myself. Legally, no, moral domination does not exist in Europe. Culturally, yes it does and the degree and level of social acceptability varies from country to country and woman to woman.

I am very grateful to the women's libbers, feminists, suffragettes, etc, who gave me legal equality. They will go down in history as brave and strong women.

The moral battle is more personal and also down to an individual's natural born character type, and about a bajillion other factors, when I actually think about it. Each to their own, I guess. I feel it is very wrong for me to try and force my own personal moral values onto someone else.

I forgot about Prince Harry!

Most rapists are men is not the same as most men are rapists.

One is factually correct, the other is conjecture. I think it's easy to understand but it does often cause confusion for some reason?

"I meant if you compare a disabled man and a a disabled woman , the woman would be worse off"

I agree. Definitely.

I state nearly all women have because when I talk to women all have experienced this in real life. I know there will be some women who havent, but it is incredibly common.

Didn't papers in this country print the pics of Harry, yet they wouldn't the ones of Kate?

Might be wrong, I haven't seen any of them

I personally feel that rape should not be a gendered term. I think it should come under the heading of serious sexual assault. There have been threads about this one before IIRC.

I believe, correct me if I'm wrong that women can be guilty of rape in America and Australia? In Canada it comes under the heading of sexual assault and is non-gendered.

'I state nearly all women have because when I talk to women all have experienced this in real life.'

I know Eats, but come on, the women you talk to are a very tiny proportion of the population!

FWIW, I know women who have experienced it. I know a couple who haven't, and I know a few men who have been made to feel pretty uncomfortable about it too.

No, Sigmund, of course you cannot say that "virtually all have" experienced it, but when you have yourself and then you start to talk to other women who have, you begin to see a pattern.

Add that to the fact that you have never / or would never consider telling a random man on the street to suck your dick (or the fanjo equivalent!), then you see an inequality in that pattern.

It's also not about having a good old moan either, it's about knowing that other people have experienced the same thing and that you are not crazy in being upset about it.

Here is an interesting website

Most rapest are men, well isn't it the case that women can't legally rape because of the definition? They are done for sexual assult but not rape.

Sigmund, I think it's brilliant if you have gone through life never being sexually harassed, raped, discriminated against in the workplace, expected to do wife work, expected to look and act feminine, expected to do childcare etc etc.

I don't think it's blinkered to think lots of women, if not most, have had something happen to them that would not have happened to them if they were a man, such as the list I've given above.

My dh shares the housework equally, for example. However, this doesn't mean I cannot understand and have compassion for the majority of women I see who do more than their fair share for various reasons which seem mostly to do with gender than anything else.

Most rapists are men. Yes men get raped, but largely by other men. Most women charged with rape have actually facilitated or encouraged a man to rape. Rape by a woman does happen, but is rare.

Sorry legally in the UK a woman can not rape a man

Re. the Prince Harry incident, of course that was terrible too, but there were differences in that Harry didn't exactly take the same precautions to be in private as Kate did.

All things being equal, the bodies of female slebs are far more fetishized and snarked than male ones.

'Sigmund, I think it's brilliant if you have gone through life never being sexually harassed, raped, discriminated against in the workplace, expected to do wife work, expected to look and act feminine, expected to do childcare etc etc.'

Well you're making a big assumption right there. Do you know me?

'Re. the Prince Harry incident, of course that was terrible too, but there were differences in that Harry didn't exactly take the same precautions to be in private as Kate did.'

He did though Messy, he was actually inside in a private room, she was outside in the garden.