To not understand why any woman would not want to be a feminist?

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

Seriously why would you want to be treated worse than men?

Also about the poster saying its just semantics

Have you not read the various threads about FRAPE etc... Words MATTER

Word factory - please stop being an arse. I've actually said that the people in this topic are actually nice. If the only rad fems that I've spoke to before are idiots who won't let me have an opinion, this is obviously going to taint my view. We do it in all sorts of areas and circumstances

This thread however has changed my mind. I now know feminists who are open to ideas and aren't going to patronise or bully me into thinking their way.

Word - will we?

Will we really? I don't think using one example means that we automatically forget or deliberately overlook other posters. What a rude and dismissive thing to say (again!)

Messy - No, I disagree. To me, feminism is NOT equalism. I want to make it very clear that I do not associate in any way with the extreme feminist views held by some and if changing the definition of what I believe in, from feminism to equalism, is what it takes, then so be it.

And nobody ever said their lives were made utterly miserable by a thread about armpit hair. You are twisting and dramatising for your own agenda

messy I hope she did mean that, however the way that post was phrased was,
"So that's what this is all about then is it? Semantics. Please.
[..]
I'm afraid this is NOT about rejecting the label."

Which does read as though she is saying that she knows better than me why I'm rejecting the label. Happy to be corrected though.

I belive in equal rights for everyone regardless of age , sex , abilty or culture so Im not sure what that makes me :(

"Feminism is Equalism"

I agree. However Equalism isn't Feminism.

Same as Catholicism is Christianity, but Christianity isn't Catholicism.

If someone said they were Christian rather than Catholic because they didn't agree entirely with Catholicism, but did agree with the basics, would anyone demand that they call themselves Catholics?

I do think armpit hair is a feminist issue. But its not what I really care about. What I care about is the extreme porn that is now being made and that is easily available on the internet, the frighteningly high number of women who are raped and sexually assaulted, the woman who are badly treated by their male partners routinely and accept that, the sexual harassment many teenage girls and women suffer, women being prostituted etc etc.

These are the things that really matter.

It isn't a moral issue though. That's what the argument was

Yes I now. And I have already said on this thread that I dont see it as a moral issue.

You cant be for equal rights for women and not everyone else though right ?

Florence - then I guess we will have to agree to disagree .

All I want to say is that I am proud to be a feminist but would never in a million years believe that women are superior to men. It's understandable that I don't want people to think that I do believe that - because to me that's the equivalent of being a racist - a very bad thing to be!

I mean, what is feminism if it's not equalism? A genuine question because I've always seen them as the same. And I'm not talking about extreme feminism (whatever that is) but just mainstream feminism.

Feminism is about ending male domination i.e. patriarchy. It is about meaning that women are no loinger second class citizens and their needs are treated as important as men. The issue with just saying equal is that there are differences between women and men. So if we just make everyone equal we could in theory say that we shouldnt have women and mens only sports competitions. The raeson we do is that in some sports, women and mens different types of bodies makes a real difference at elitist level.

So do radical feminists believe everyone should be treated equally?

'It is about meaning that women are no loinger second class citizens and their needs are treated as important as men.'

Are you telling me that women are considered second class citizens really? Here in the UK?

Hmmm... ok so maybe the difference between equalism and feminism is that equalism doesn't recognise that male domination exists? I dunno

And that feminists do believe that differences exist but that the answer is differentiation in order to achieve equal opportunities?

Differences yes is that not the whole point though ?
I mean treat people equal even though they are different ?

Radical feminists believe that womens needs should be treated as importantly as mens. So for example with work - treating everyone equally would mean no time off for pre natal appointments, no facilities to express at work,. etc. It is about ensuring both womens and mens needs are treated equally.

I find it hard to get my head round it thats all.

I am all for treating everyone the same as I said. However I do not think by saying I am a feminist is living up to my statment as in some way it seems to say i am more for womens rights when I am not. I am for equal rights.

"Hmmm... ok so maybe the difference between equalism and feminism is that equalism doesn't recognise that male domination exists? I dunno "

No. See my previous post.

As far as I am aware (this is my interpretation, others may disagree) equalism just means they want equal rights/opportunities for everyone regardless of gender/race/sexuality/etc

This doesn't mean that feminists don't. But the point of feminism is that it is about improving things for females. Same as Gay rights obviously concerns improving things for homosexuals. Etc etc.

" It is about ensuring both womens and mens needs are treated equally. "

Unless they happen to be transgendered. Then radical feminists are a bit less compassionate.

"The issue with just saying equal is that there are differences between women and men. So if we just make everyone equal we could in theory say that we shouldnt have women and mens only sports competitions."

Should just point out that the term equal as used by people who identify as Equalist is quite likely to be the same definition as when it is used by Feminists.

Eg. allowing for physical differences.

Yes sigmund women are second class citizens. They earn less than men, they are less likely to get promoted even in female dominated careers like nursing, they are expected to put up with everyday sexism, they get raped and sexually assaulted and are told it was their own fault, etc