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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think that "sexual harassment" is a bit strong to describe this event?

614 replies

BartiiMus · 14/09/2012 10:22

At a training session with work. 3 days, 2 nights on-site.

Around midnight (not long after the people concerned have left the bar), man A rings woman B and asks for a code to connect to the internet (we use password tokens and he'd forgotten his).

Woman says fine, come to my room. Man goes to room, then confesses he didn't come for that at all and tries to kiss her. She refuses. Man is confused saying he thought they had a "connection" earlier in the evening but she denies it. He leaves the room.

A few days later woman B tells my colleague about it. She was half-laughing about it and said she wasn't going to report it.

Last night at a party my colleague told us that there'd been "sexual harassment" during the training this summer but refused to say who had been involved. After a bit of coaxing and lots of clues from him we worked out who the man had been, and our colleague confirmed it.

I know him, I've worked with him before and he's a nice bloke. I'm not saying he didn't do this but he tried it on, was refused and left. Is that really "sexual harassment"?

To be honest, I'm a bit pissed off with the gossip colleague who told us all because it's a bit of a non-event (man tries to pull woman, woman refuses, man leaves) but he's usually highly emotive language like "sexual harassment" to describe it. She's not even reporting it. The man isn't her boss or anything and they don't work together.

I know I probably don't have all the story but I do know the gossip well and he does love to exagerate and I don't think it's very fair to man A to have people slinging mud at him like this.

So, deep breath AIBU?

OP posts:
TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 18/09/2012 14:29

You would have refused to give your work colleague a password token?

DowagersHump · 18/09/2012 14:32

Feminine - so if he'd raped her, it wouldn't have been her fault but trying to kiss her is her fault? At what point does it go from being her fault to his fault?

Sallyingforth · 18/09/2012 14:32

Feminine
"The guy was wrong and foolish, but the women in question should have told him to ask someone else for the code, or him to wait till morning."

She could have done, but in the circumstances she clearly felt in control of the situation. She was justified in that by the guy making his excuses and leaving when he realised his mistake. The OP said "I've worked with him before and he's a nice bloke".

As confident intelligent women we shouldn't take chances, but neither should we be running scared all the time and pretending that every man is a potential rapist. We have to positive and assertive.
I've just had a business meeting in my home with a male visitor. I didn't refuse him access because he was a man - I just took relevant precautions.

atacareercrossroads · 18/09/2012 14:37

Oh fgs it was a white lie, they happen in pubs, bars and nightclubs across the world every Friday night. He didn't know she'd invite him in, he (I assume) was invited into the room for something she could have just given hum through an inch of open door, he thought they had similar ideas, which might have been wrongly compounded by being invited up and in to the room. He made a mistake, she told him, he left.

That a seductive "can we have a coffee" is somehow better than "can you tell me the code for the internet' is baffling me tbh.

seeker · 18/09/2012 14:38

"Yes, and I did already know him quite well prior to this occasion so I guess it was easier to read than the situation in the op."

So you invited somebody you knew well back to your flat to watch a film, and things "developed"

How is that even remotely similar to the situation under discussion?

Feminine · 18/09/2012 14:39

Dowager: I didn't say either situation was her fault did I?

Sally: my precaution (regarding this thread) to have been to not let him in.

in your situation you did what you had to too.

I'm not suggesting all men are potential rapists either, I just personally wouldn't want a man in my room at night on any pretense...

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 18/09/2012 14:40

Of course can we have a coffee is different because it puts the interaction onto a more social footing!

seeker · 18/09/2012 14:41

"I've just had a business meeting in my home with a male visitor. I didn't refuse him access because he was a man - I just took relevant precautions."

But it would have been absolutely fine if he had "misread the signals" and tried to kiss you?

Feminine · 18/09/2012 14:45

Did you all miss the bit where, the guy thought they had a had a connection?

THAT is why he took a chance.

He was told "no thanks" he cleared off.

I actually have never said his behaviour was fine, I think he sounds like an annoying pest. This type of situation does occur though, thats why I'll teach my DD to look out for herself.

atacareercrossroads · 18/09/2012 14:46

But the woman might just fancy a coffee at that particular time.

Or you could say being invited up to and in someone's room for something that could have been given on the phone or at the door also puts a social spin in it. Kind of the technological equivalent of 'would you like a coffee'

DowagersHump · 18/09/2012 14:52

If he'd thought they'd 'had a connection', he wouldn't have needed to make up a stupid lie to get into her room would he?

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 18/09/2012 14:54

YY Dowager

seeker · 18/09/2012 14:58

Feminine- why not teach your sons to behave like civilised human beings- then you won't have to teach your daughters to"look out for themselves"

Do you know what I find utterly soul destroying about this? I am old enough to be most of your mothers and when I was a young woman, sexual harassment ( the words didn't exist, but the actions did) was always the woman's fault. "she should have......""She shouldn't have......"

And nearly 40 years later nothing's changed. Except that people say "I'm not saying it's her fault but......." in front of the "She should have.......".

atacareercrossroads · 18/09/2012 15:00

Some people aren't very good with a verbal direct approach. I think I'd be less threatened by someone leaning for a snog and handling it the way this lady did rather than having to go into a detailed discussion about it.
Still baffled about why the coffee
lie is ok but this isn't.

seeker · 18/09/2012 15:06

because coffee is a social thing. Asking for an internet code isn't. Jesus wept, this is a depressing thread.

Feminine · 18/09/2012 15:08

seeker thanks for your advise on how to raise my sons.

I'm no spring chicken either , I'm 41.

atacareercrossroads · 18/09/2012 15:10

It could be said inviting someone up to and into your room for something that could be given over the phone or at the door could also a social thing or misconstrued as a social thing

Very depressing thread.

jackiesil · 18/09/2012 15:13

it's not the same as inviting someone for coffee!

if i was "interested" in someone's friendship or more, i'd accept a coffee in a social situation, or outside of work.

this was in a work setting, and involved getting access to email - i've offered to help out colleagues in very similar circumstances (including helping one new guy set up his laptop in a hotel room when he got sent on some training with our team in his first week, last year)... it doesn't mean i'm "inviting" unwanted sexual advances. it means i'm trying to be a helpful colleage.

i'm shocked at the OP's posts, tbh Shock esp. the later comments about him being " nice bloke" and blaming others for "mud slinging"... wtf? it's been commented on at work that i'm the peak of professionalism (I have my weaknesses, but knowing how to behave at work isn't one of them) and i can see myself easily placed in the female colleague's position - trying to be helpful to a co-worker, but being faced with an unwanted advance because of it.

MyNameIsInigoMontoya · 18/09/2012 15:14

FFS, any bloke (or woman), in pretty much almost any situation where there has been any kind of contact, can say "Oh, I thought we had a connection".

My flipping postman could say he "thought we connected" because my hand brushed his when I took a parcel from him. Or any other bloke I happened to smile at or say hello to in a friendly way. (Sound familiar, anyone?).

It does not mean there was any connection, or that they have any right to try it on. It actually means, either they imagined a non-existent connection in their own heads - or they are just lying altogether to justify the fact that they felt like a crafty kiss/grope on someone they knew wasn't interested.

THAT is why it is everyone's responsibility, especially in a work situation where there are rules for this purpose, to make sure the other person actually feels the same, either by them saying so or else indicating their feelings in some reasonably clear way (which could just mean leaning in for example), before they go for unwanted physical contact (especially late at night, in private, where this could be very intimidating).

seeker · 18/09/2012 15:15

"It could be said inviting someone up to and into your room for something that could be given over the phone or at the door could also a social thing or misconstrued as a social thing"

Only if you were very entitled or very stupid.

atacareercrossroads · 18/09/2012 15:20

But change it to coffee and its game on? Jesus :(

OneMoreChap · 18/09/2012 15:25

Didn't it always use to be "Would you like to come in for coffee?"

I remember having it patiently explained to me, that no, it didn't matter that I only drank tea, I was being invited in...

modifiedmum · 18/09/2012 15:25

I'm sorry I don't think it is either. I used to work somewhere in an office in customer service and we was open till quite late once, me and this other guy got on very well, always had a laugh, shift went quite well and one night when i left (i finished an hour before him) he tried to kiss me, i pushed him away and said he had the wrong idea and he said same sorta thing, i thought we had a connection, we got on etc and i said no thats sweet but no thank you. It never crossed my mind i was sexually assaulted. If he'd been pushy and kept on then yes but same as this situation, she said no, he said why he thought he had a chance then he left it.

atacareercrossroads · 18/09/2012 15:26

So, if she had said "yea come up, I'm having a coffee you can join me" because she is having a coffee, and he tried it on, that would be ok?

modifiedmum · 18/09/2012 15:29

Really?? am i reading this right??? someone just said he leaned in for a kiss, he didn't ask, therefore thats not right wtf. So men have to ask "hello there, I'd like to ask your permission for a kiss?" seriously?? i've had many men try to kiss me (ok that sounds bad lol) say in clubs etc if i've been chatting and even that time at work and i've not fancied that person back, said no, they've accepted the rejection end of.