to think that "sexual harassment" is a bit strong to describe this event?

[BartiiMus]

At a training session with work. 3 days, 2 nights on-site.

Around midnight (not long after the people concerned have left the bar), man A rings woman B and asks for a code to connect to the internet (we use password tokens and he'd forgotten his).

Woman says fine, come to my room. Man goes to room, then confesses he didn't come for that at all and tries to kiss her. She refuses. Man is confused saying he thought they had a "connection" earlier in the evening but she denies it. He leaves the room.

A few days later woman B tells my colleague about it. She was half-laughing about it and said she wasn't going to report it.

Last night at a party my colleague told us that there'd been "sexual harassment" during the training this summer but refused to say who had been involved. After a bit of coaxing and lots of clues from him we worked out who the man had been, and our colleague confirmed it.

I know him, I've worked with him before and he's a nice bloke. I'm not saying he didn't do this but he tried it on, was refused and left. Is that really "sexual harassment"?

To be honest, I'm a bit pissed off with the gossip colleague who told us all because it's a bit of a non-event (man tries to pull woman, woman refuses, man leaves) but he's usually highly emotive language like "sexual harassment" to describe it. She's not even reporting it. The man isn't her boss or anything and they don't work together.

I know I probably don't have all the story but I do know the gossip well and he does love to exagerate and I don't think it's very fair to man A to have people slinging mud at him like this.

So, deep breath AIBU?

Hm. Been thinking about this one. It IS true that we don't really know the full story, and there are a lot of details that would affect my view of it. But some points that do come to mind for me:

• Firstly, we use SecurIDs too, and although it is possible to give a code out over the phone, the codes change quickly (so he would have to enter it immediately) and it's also quite common to lose the connection and have to re-enter the code repeatedly. So it would not be at all surprising if someone preferred to have the actual token in their hand, so they can get a new code when needed - a good excuse for going to someone's room.

• Second, we don't know how the conversation went, but given that we know the woman rejected the man's advances and that there is NO evidence of there having been any flirting etc beforehand - and that she had gone up to bed, on her OWN, I reckon that rather than going like this:

Man: I need to do some work, can you give me a SecurID code please?
Woman: tell you what, big boy, why don't you just come up and get it?

...I would be prepared to bet the phone call went more like this:

Man: I need to work and I've forgotten my SecurID, can I pop up and borrow yours?
Woman:

YY inigo

Oh, I also agree that her saying she "wasn't going to report it" is interesting as it shows she had at least considered that it could be reportable. If it was really nothing, why say that? It actually makes me wonder whether she was in fact trying to sound people out about it, and see what others thought and whether someone would actually say "hey that sounds really dodgy, you should report it", or else "hmm, he tried something like that with me too...".

And having re-read the OP, it is interesting that the (male) colleague was the one who used the words "sexual harrassment". He had the only first-hand account of the events from the woman involved, and presumably being male, can't be accused of being a man-hating feminist either, but HE used these words. So presumably, either the woman herself DID say this to him (and therefore, had felt herself to have been harrassed), or her description of events was enough to convince him that this had been the case. It wasn't just random mumsnetters after the event using this description.

"This is very different to if I had invited someone to my room in such a way as to deliberately show my interest (which she clearly hadn't in this case, as she was NOT interested...)"

Its understandable though that the man thought that she was showing interest. IMO someone phoning you after the end of a work night out, in a hotel, is something that I would certainly assume could be a come on. and if whatever pretext involved information that could have been given over the phone, I would only then invite the man to my room if I wanted to reciprocate that interest.

That is not me 'blaming' the woman, or being a rape apologist, because I don't see any blame in this situation, it was a misunderstanding, not an assault. If he hadn't left as soon as he did, then that would have been very different, but thats not what happened is it.

So if these people were both men, what then?

Are you saying that it is impossible to ring a colleage and ask for the code for the internet without beingbsuspected of making a move?

So much speculation.
So many might haves.
So many could have beens.

All we know for sure is that a woman had a laugh with her workmates about how one of their colleagues made a fool of himself by trying it on with her in the hotel.

No. All we know for sure is that a man lied in order to go to a woman's hotel room late at night and then tried to kiss her. Those are the facts.

The woman's feelings are a much speculation as anything else.

Total non-event.

Man A fancied Woman B.

He thought she felt the same so found an excuse to contact her (OK, it's a bit sleazy and maybe he just wanted a quick leg over but...a lot of romances start in the workplace though). Of course, maybe he really did need the code and he wasn't lying about that.

He phoned her asking for info. She could've given him this on the phone but instead she invited him to her room. He thought the attraction was mutual so this just reaffirmed it.

Having misread the situation he tried to kiss her. She said no. He left.

Woman B DOES NOT THINK SHE WAS HARASSED SEXUALLY. People are getting offended on her behalf.

Harassment is when someone keeps being a pain or when you ask someone to stop doing whatever they are doing to you and they don't. She asked him to stop, he did. He was not harassing her.

Seriously, I wonder how men and women ever get into relationships it's such a minefield!

Winegoggles I guess plenty of people get into relationships, including at work, by asking other people out on dates, or by making a move in a non-threatning manner? I would guess only the sleaziest few would "start a relationship" by going up to a work colleague's room after midnight and lying their way in. Can't you see the difference? But personally I don't find sleazy married men trying for a quick shag at work conferences that appealing.

And has no-one seen some of those internet codes? 3jfidgy98h2t9ghdao8t3---3g8ypagh. Or similar.

Try giving that over the phone. Probably she was just being polite/helpful as it was a work situation, found it easier to write it down than say it over the phone and thought once she handed it over, she would be rid of the tiresome bugger.

I'm also a little bit astonished at the posters who think starting relationships in the workplace and men not being put off is more important than actually being at work to do a job!

Nobody will tell me whether a man receiving a phone call from another man to ask for the internet code should assume he was making a move.

There we go again. More speculation
'guess'
'maybe'
'probably'
And now suddenly the guy is married.

Everyone is adding stuff to try and make it fit their own preconceptions.

Its discussing the possible likely scenarios Sallyingforth. Its not a science question, its a discussion topic on an internet forum with limited, generalised facts. There is no barrier on speculation or defined parameters. See the logic?

No. All we know for sure is that a man lied in order to go to a woman's hotel room late at night and then tried to kiss her. Those are the facts.

The woman's feelings are a much speculation as anything else.

Just repeating this because it seems tonhave been missed.

winegoggles

IMVHO the man in question ought to be pulled up about it, even if the woman in question isn't too worried.
He needs to know that a different woman might find it highlly harrassing and that it's Not On.

Christ I bet Inspector Clouseau is shitting himself

atacareercrossroads Nice. So much better than my frustrated FFS.

Well, either that or someone has dug up Columbo

Seeker can I just salute your sterling work on this thread? Thanks.

I'm with seeker on that too - what would people say if a male colleague had tried to do this to another man? Would that have been an acceptable, normal way to "try and start a relationship"?

For that matter - if this guy had really just wanted an internet code (as some people seem to be speculating that he started out just innocently wanting that before being invited up), why not phone one of his male colleagues?

seeker
The woman's feelings are a much speculation as anything else.

"A few days later woman B tells my colleague about it. She was half-laughing about it and said she wasn't going to report it."

That is all we know, and all I have stated.

Anything else is speculation.

geegee
There is no barrier on speculation or defined parameters. See the logic?

No logic there. You cannot resolve a problem by inserting new and unproven data into it.

Sally the object is not to solve the problem, but to discuss it.

Would you prefer a conspiracy of silence over such issues?

geegee the object was
"AIBU to think that "sexual harassment" is a bit strong to describe this event?"

From the information in the OP, woman B dealt with it in a confident manner and did not herself consider it harassment.

The later discussion is not about this event but about event/s that those with their own agendas would have liked it to be, including those would have liked her to cry rape.

As it happens I am working alone at home, and in five minutes time will be visited by a man who I hardly know to discuss a paper I have written. Should I be frightened of sexual harassment? I think not.