To think my brother is being a misogynist about this?

[VivaLeBeaver]

He's normally lovely and sensible but he said something so stupid the other day I could barely reply. We started arguing but then I dropped it as where we were wasn't very appropriate.

I was talking to my younger brother all about the evils of how the NHS is been privatised by stealth with rationing of services, ops, drugs, etc. My older brother said that this doesn't happen. I disagreed and gave the example of sterilisation - how hard many women are finding it now to get sterilised.

My brother agreed that woman shouldn't be allowed to be sterilised as they could take the pill or have an implant/coil instead. I pointed out many women aren't happy with pumping hormones into their body, all the side effects, etc.

He said that sterilisation is just cosmetic surgery as you're making your body do something (or not do something) its naturally supposed to do.

I was staggered that some people would think this. Unfortunately I couldn't get into a discussion with him about contraception as a feminist issue, nor give him other examples such as increasingly limited hip replacements.

Cosmetic surgery? I'd have told him to look up what that actually means.

No, not misogyny at all.

He has an opinion about NHS resources, not about the evils of women.

Ok, maybe not a misogynist, but a prat?

I think it was maybe the way he said it - almost like a bit sneery. All these silly women wasting nhs resources to have cosmetic surgery. . When in the long run avoiding unwanted pregnancies saves the state money and benefits the men involved with these women. But no, they're just been daft for expecting it to be an option.

What is his opinion about men having the snip?

I was 24 married with 2 DC when i asked for this op, and got pratically laughed out of the Drs room. My then 29 year old husband went to the same doctor and referred him for a vacsectomy.

I'll have to ask him what he thinks about vasectomies next time I see him. We were in polite company and I think someone might have had the vapours at the thought of sperm counts, etc!

I imagine sterilisation might sometimes be more cost-effective than years of the Pill, not to mention pregnancies avoided.

What about vasectomy for men? After all they could just use a condom?

My mum asked to be sterilised at age 46 and the doctor said "you might change your mind and want more children"

It's ludicrous. Not a misogynist but a prat :)

Not misogyny but possibly ill informed.

He sounds a knob to be honest.

I don't even think he's a prat. The cosmetic surgery comment was twatishness, but the basis of his arguement is valid on the surface of it.

We would have to look into how much female sterilisations cost/failure rates/side effects etc before we could say his opinion was prattish. And then weigh all those answers up against the same for every type of contraception.

If sterilisations aren't cost effective compared with other types of contraception, (I have no idea if they would or wouldn't be) then I think your brother has a point. The NHS is for sick people, not for people to have whatever contraception they like.

Fuckwit is how I'd put it. Hopelessly ignorant you may say, more politely. :)

Outraged -

NHS provides free contraception for all women already so really you can't just say the "NHS is for sick people only".

Also, the word sick can be interpreted in many ways. Having more children can be detrimental to your health, your mental health or the wellbeing of your family...

Cosmetic surgery? Well it didn't work for me, I'm still ugly as fuck!

Long term I'd have thought that sterilisations are cost effective. Though I suppose it depends at what age it's done, maybe wouldnt be if someone was 45 when it got done.

I got sterilised at 26 so will save the nhs 20plus years of contraception pills. Plus I was shit about remembering to take them and got pregnant. If I'd carried on having to take the pill I'd have had loads more kids and that would cost the state lots. Plus the pill affected my physical health badly, as did the coil.

Does sound like he was being twattish as regards "cosmetic surgery" (FFS). But I suspect it was more to do with the context of the conversation and if you talk to him again about it he'll be more reasonable. Listening to any "argument" about the NHS reforms makes me instantly mardy and unco-operative.

surgery, cosmetic,
(n) surgery whose purpose is to improve external appearance rather than general health.

Yep, sterilisation is all about the external appearance ...

I think contraceptives should be removed from the NHS for precisely the reason that they are elective, not a prevention of a medical condition. Pregnancy may have health risks but as it is not itself pathological the state is wrong to offer it to all women via tax funds.

For poor women I support subsidized birth control because it costs more for government to deal with the unwanted children later and many of these children would have unhappy lives, making it different to tummy tucks and Botox and other forms of elective care. But if you can pay for it you should have to do so IMO.

This is unlikely because of its vote-losing potential unless we get into really dire fiscal straits, but the USA is closer to making contraception a matter of personal responsibility and should Mitt win it will happen Senate permitting.

think that through Extrospektiv

Contraception shouldn't be made more difficult to get.

Actually some contraceptives are preventative medicine Extrospektiv.

Dianette, Diane, Yasmin are all prescribed free as treatment for acne. Contraceptives are also used as a preventative for migraine sufferers and can be prescribed to regulate periods and calm periods for those of us who suffer from heavy and painful periods.

Why on earth remove birth control from the NHS? The US certainly isn't a country we should look up to. Remove birth control and we'll end up like a 3rd world country.

Actually I did pay privately for my pills when I was using contraception, just for the convenience of being able to order online and have them delivered without having to go to the GP.

I see the ideological point about not providing an 'elective' treatment on the NHS, but in practical terms not doing it would very likely have worse (and long-term more expensive!) outcomes. I have quite libertarian leanings generally, but sometimes you have to be pragmatic.

I don't think I'd have minded so much if hed said his opinion was that contraception shouldn't be freely available when the nhs can't afford cancer drugs, etc.

I'd have disagreed with him still but at least he'd have had a more valid argument (in my opinion).

Just calling it cosmetic surgery wound me right up!

If people took more personal responsibilty we wouldn't have to hand out free contraception. Its sad that it's needed.

They could still charge the regular prescription charge for those who are taking the pill for medical reasons. In fact, I wish they would, my surgery might be more likely to let me go back on Yasmin for acne if they did. But they won't, because it's expensive.