To think my brother is being a misogynist about this?

[VivaLeBeaver]

He's normally lovely and sensible but he said something so stupid the other day I could barely reply. We started arguing but then I dropped it as where we were wasn't very appropriate.

I was talking to my younger brother all about the evils of how the NHS is been privatised by stealth with rationing of services, ops, drugs, etc. My older brother said that this doesn't happen. I disagreed and gave the example of sterilisation - how hard many women are finding it now to get sterilised.

My brother agreed that woman shouldn't be allowed to be sterilised as they could take the pill or have an implant/coil instead. I pointed out many women aren't happy with pumping hormones into their body, all the side effects, etc.

He said that sterilisation is just cosmetic surgery as you're making your body do something (or not do something) its naturally supposed to do.

I was staggered that some people would think this. Unfortunately I couldn't get into a discussion with him about contraception as a feminist issue, nor give him other examples such as increasingly limited hip replacements.

Only because individuals can't be trusted to be responsible for sorting out and paying for their own contraception.

Condoms don't increase a man's risk of getting cancer. I don't consider hormonal methods of contraception a reasonable long term solution for women. Either Dh or I are getting sterilised by hook or by crook within the next six months.

My brother agreed that woman shouldn't be allowed to be sterilised as they could take the pill or have an implant/coil instead.

Is he very young?

Wait until he's a father of 3 and the wife can no longer take contraceptives.

No, he's nearly 40.

Epiphany- where can you buy the pill from online?

LittlePicnic I got it from here.

If people took more personal responsibilty we wouldn't have to hand out free contraception. Its sad that it's needed

What do you mean by that?

If cost is prohibitive for some people then it makes sense all round to give it out 'free'

What do you mean by 'personal responsibility'? like pay for their own contraceptive pills? you could say that about a lot of things.

I think the financial savings of free contraception are immeasurable.

Cant see anything 'sad' about that at all.

"Either Dh or I are getting sterilised by hook or by crook within the next six months"

You both need to get sterilised, either of you could die and the other would still be fertile.

Neither gender are allowed to end their fertility via the NHS,under 25,without good reason, that isn't a gender issue. McHappy's DH and not her could do that because of the age difference.

If we made contraception chargable then the whole structure of Sexual Health clinics would have to change, also and at a time when STI's are on the increase, as well as abortion rates, that wouldn't make sense, long term.

Condoms are free, as well as hormone cotraceptive's.

I mean that there's no reason why people shouldn't pay for their own contraception if they are not in a position to be able to afford to have children. We already have to pay for prescriptions, the same people that are already exempt would be exempt for contraception too.

I could say that about a lot of things, and I do. I think individuals in this country do need to take more personal responsibilty in many ways.

If cost is prohibitive, then don't have penatrative sex! It's not mandatory. Nor is it a 'human right'.

Yes, the financial savings we make because of free contraception are immeasurable, and significant, and are a good thing, but I maintain that that's only because if we didn't give it out free then we would have to fund more abortion and children that parents can't afford.

If cost is prohibitive, then don't have penatrative sex! It's not mandatory. Nor is it a 'human right'

While I do get your point there it is unrealistic to expect that to happen which is why free contraception and easy access to it is so important.

Its not that black and white.

Its also not just a financial issue, there are wider social implications too.

The trouble with charging for contraception is that it will unfairly impact on women. History and present culture has already amply demonstrated that when it fails and a woman gets pregnant, it is the woman who deals with the consequences. Unless we want to tax men more heavily than women to level this out, it is unfair. Why should women be financially penalised for something that already puts them at a massive biological and social disadvantage?

The NHS is for sick people

No, youre wrong, todays model of healthcare is very much "wellness" rather than "illness" and as such heavily features health promotion to perfectly healthy people to prevent illness etc. The word is healthcare - because its also looking after the overall health of an individual, including the prevention of pregnancy. What about baby immunisations for example - all provided to perfectly healthy babies - to keep them that way.

He is an obvious idiot cosmetic surgery indeed her needs to see how sterilisation works is contraceptive for cosmetic reasons only as they stop the body doing what it is supposed to do, Is he usually so thick,

The NHS was created as part of the wider welfare state, to raise the standard of living and health of the nation.

It wasn't just for sick people. It interlinked with other services.

No, he's nearly 40.

does he have a partner ?

I was sterilised at 27 for health reasons and I didn't want to bother with contraceptives anymore, being pregnant again wasn't an option for me,

The NHS run loads of well being clinics and services it isn't just for sick people either

shesariver

No, youre wrong, todays model of healthcare is very much "wellness" rather than "illness" and as such heavily features health promotion to perfectly healthy people to prevent illness etc. The word is healthcare - because its also looking after the overall health of an individual, including the prevention of pregnancy. What about baby immunisations for example - all provided to perfectly healthy babies - to keep them that way.

Well, not really. It's about physical, not mental health in the NHS. Mental diseases with physical symptoms are treated as physical diseases. Another reason why it's not fit for purpose.

I think that to describe your brother as a misogynist is a bit harsh because he has an opinon that you disagree with. I don't see how contraception is just a women's issue. It takes two to make a baby.

It is not unreasonable to consider how contraception should be funded. Female sterilisation is substantially more expensive than a vascetomy and maybe couples should be encouraged to opt for male sterilisation rather than female sterilisation. A vascetomy can be done as day surgery under local where as female sterilisation is full blown operation.

If a couple are not willing to consider sterilisation of either person in a couple then are they really ready for that step?

i hate the way that free contraception is discussed as a "bonus" for women. it is not! It is a bonus for society and men largely.

I sometimes think I shoudl be paid to use contraception!

Contraception shouldnt be just a womans issue but it invariably is

Contraception is a feminist issue.

but @amber, the OP's brother has been saved vast amounts of money by the women he has been in a relationship with using contraception.

I hate the way men take that for granted.

How many threads are there by women who want another baby but are expected to take care of contraception according to their partner's wishes?

There is no reason why men couldn't contribute to the cost of contraception. If a man won't do that, then it seems to me thats a pretty good reason not to have sex with him.

While I appreciate that the NHs is about preventing illness as well as sick people, there is a difference between preventing illness and preventing people from having to take financial responsibilty for their own life choices.

While the NHS continues to be so underfunded, family planning issues should be at the bottom of the funding list IMO.