Aibu re childcare comments

[sleepdodger]

Im RL and on here alot recently I've been met with gasps when people digest I work ft and then realize DS 17mo is in ft nursery for about 50hrs a week
Do people not realize what full time hours mean?
Why do people assume its ok to question 'couldn't you do pt' etc - presumably no they can't afford it or choose not to...
Often then followed by 'is he (DS) ok there' in hushed tone
Then followed by 'no family able to help?'
It's not been mentioned much until now, he's been in nursery since 10mo but it's starting to get to me a bit :-(

SM said that its lazy and flawed to assume we all feel it, when we don't. She's right.

Why do I actually bother posting on these threads, really.

There are so many children in this world who really, truly deserve your pity. The orphans with AIDS, the starving, the homeless, the ones working in sweatshops, the abused, the child sex slaves.... Millions of children will go to bed tonight in on street corners in dirty clothes, with empty stomachs, with no love afforded them whatsoever.

FFS, a child spending most of the day in a clean, regulated, loving nursery environment and then going home to a warm safe house, food, its own bed after kisses, cuddles and a story from mum and dad is a blessed child indeed.

Some of you really need a bigger picture to look at.

And BTW, I've never felt any guilt about my full-time childcare choices either, because they were always the best choices we could make, given our resources. What on earth is there to feel guilty about when you are doing your best?

I don't know. I'm not a psychologist, but I'd hazard a guess that banging on and on and on about how fine you are about something on Mumsnet betrays a certain level of resentment, if not guilt.

yes clearly you're not a psychologist

The only resentment I feel is towards women who try to make other women feel bad or inferior for the choices they make. I've been here years and seen so many mothers suffering enough guilt about returning to work as it is, and then endless posters turn up to kick them while they're down telling them "yes, you should feel guilty, you are a BAD MOTHER.

FFS WHY?!!?!?!?!?!

because they are twats?

Ah, see what you mean SM/WhatYou.

so you mean the housewives and precious moments mamas are resentful?
How did you arrive at that conclusion?
They wont like being called resentful. or accused of banging on. no siree

Rubirosa :"Sure you're right janey, early years care in this country is the absolute pinnacle of perfection and there are no problems or improvements to be made whatsoever. In fact why do we even need all these silly Government initiatives, Ofsted inspections, child development experts etc when everything is so good already and suggesting otherwise might make parents feel bad?"

Interesting that the response to my post is a sarcastic reply

Neither I (nor anyone else here) has said early years care is the absolute pinnacle of perfection. Nurseries aren't perfect, neither are schools, neither are the hospitals where we have our babies, and neither are families!

Scare mongering is not helpful. Any kind of 'research' or child development study needs to be intelligently unpicked and put into context - where was the research carried out, who was funding it etc because inevitably there will be bias. And that's if you're reading the actual research findings, which not everyone does. If you read how it's reported in the media, or in a bestselling book by some popular psychologist, you need to take it with an even bigger pinch of salt. Anyway,there are so many variables when it comes to raising children that tbh it's not sensible to put too much faith in so called experts.

As for government initiatives and Ofsted inspections.... hmm, I certainly wouldn't hold those up as the pinnace of anything! An Ofsted inspection might provide a bit of data and some surface judgements, but it can't tell you about the people working in a nursery, or how it actually feels.

I really hope the OP is feeling more reassured that her family's way of doing things is fine, or at least that after reading this thread she can grow a thicker skin - practise that look which people have mentioned! - and tell people to concentrate on their own family and not hers.

yes, thats's what I mean, sm.

if they keep banging on ad infinitum

ah yes the research. shitsvill uni and cortisol and bit of faux psychology
always get trotted out as if proof the institution is harming the kids
still it keeps some bumptious men very rich and sells books

Taking into account there are always going to be risks whatever you choose, and you're never going to find an unbiased source of evidence janey, if you accept it's not possible for all nurseries to be 'excellent' (again, I acknowledge that's not going to be the same for everyone), where does that leave someone who doesn't feel comfortable about putting their DC in a nursery but has to out of necessity?

I know you can only do what you think is the best for you and your DC, but is it possible to reconcile hating the thought of sending your DC to a nursery you're not happy with when you don't have a choice?

(I'm not asking that with any particular angle, just interested)

OP, I've been through the same as you, and I got good at the quizzical face and "but why would I want to?" when asked couldn't I go part time. And also pointing out that they didn't ask that sort of question of my DH, who also worked full time.

I think full time working or not is the replacement to the bf/ff issue, ie Ways In Which Mothers Judge Other Mothers And Find Them Lacking. Drives me insane! No need for men to worry about what will happen when women achieve equality when we are so bad at supporting each other's valid choices!

janey, believing that nursery care can and should be improved is not "scaremongering". Lots of very valuable research is going on into children's experiences of early years care and education, and it is ridiculous to dismiss it all in case something might make parents feel bad.

and overwhelmingly the findings are good childcare is good for kids
whether delivered at nursery or at home
sp long as its consistent,good quality care children will flourish

It's difficult to imagine that situation agentzigzag, because as I've already said, nurseries are so expensive, particularly for younger children, that anyone looking at full time, 50 hours a week, nursery, is likely to have other options at their disposal.

In the almost unbelievable scenario that parents were forced to place their baby full time in a nursery which they didn't feel comfortable with, then I guess they would have to do their best to reconcile that, and focus on the fact that if they were loving, caring parents, they would still be the key figures in the child's life

But really, I have never come across anyone in RL in that situation. The women I know who have returned to work very early, have usually had a nanny or cm, and I know very few women who return to work these days earlier than 5 or 6 months.

I completely agree though Agentzigzag, that it's the cases where there is no choice where we should feel sympathy... whether that's children who have one or both parents not working but not providing a nurturing environment, or where a low waged couple are forced to use free childcare from relatives which isn't what they'd ideally want (which is a far more common scenario than low waged couple paying £1000 a month to nursery but not being happy)

Incidentally, I've just been posting on the 'What would you do?' section about a mum worrying about leaving her children for the day with grandparents who smoke, and another poster on the thread was commenting about how she'd used to have to leave her child while she worked with granny who was a smoker, and how terrible she'd felt about it. Now those are the people we should be feeling sympathy for - not children whose parents are empowered by choice.

And what makes a particular style or set-up in childcare "good"? How easy is it to provide? Does the size of the group, number of adults present, education level of the adults, age of the children, amount of floorspace, curriculum or equipment used make any difference at all? Does the number of hours a child spends in childcare have any effect - does this change if the child is 10 months or 4 years old?

A lot of the research when scrutinised has a lot of variables in which means it has to be taken with a pinch of salt. There is certainly an argument that a child spending a lot of time in child care when under 1 will be at increased risk of struggling with attachment, but that is still only a small increase and at the same time there are positives to be taken from the childcare aswell.

I think it's impossible to make any sort of generalisation as every setting is different as are the children and families

That's the thing I struggle with Rubirosa, like deciding what school to send your DC to, you can look at all the reports and government stats you like, but it's what the school feels like that's most important to me.

And that's not something you can measure scientifically.

It's weird I've worked full time for five years since youngest dc was three and have NEVER had any such comment from ANYONE in real life.

Proud, I suspect it's because you started full time work / child care when your youngest was three years old, rather than six months old. I'd be very surprised to hear from anyone who used formal childcare for their six month old who didn't get any kind of comment (well meaning or otherwise) about that arrangement.

AgentZigzag - to answer your question about reconciling putting your child in a nursery you're not happy with... I put DD2 in a nursery that was pretty dire for a few months when I was suddenly offered a job out of the blue and had 2 weeks to make childcare arrangements. I wasn't happy with her being there, but since I knew it was only temporary, it didn't trouble me too much. I put her name down for two other really nice nurseries and just had to wait until they had space available.

Sometimes you may have to wait a bit to get your ideal choice, but with so many nurseries and childminders available, I doubt anyone has to use a childcare setting they're unhappy with in the long term.