to want another child although strictly speaking we can't afford it?

[melonandpapayaandmango]

If we had a fourth, no one would starve, no one would go barefoot and no one would be homeless.

DD is 5, DS1 is 3 and DS2 is only 3 months. I've always wanted a big family, DH was happy with 2 children but I persuaded him to have a 3rd - he agreed and now he has said he likes the idea of an even number.

at the moment my two older children share a room (DS2 is in with us) but we hope to move house in the next 2 years but it would probably be a 3 bedroom property meaning the two boys would still have to share - a third DS would go in with them, a daughter would share with DD.

it's mainly the living space - any thoughts?

Marriedinwhite - I am over it, don't worry!

Just for reference I didn't say our mortgage was low due to interest rates, it's a small mortgage, we own 70% of the property.

Thanks for the new replies really interesting posts.

Just make sure you both have life insurance to pay off the mortgage and provide £40k pa until the youngest is 18.

Make sure it covers you too as DP may not be able to work at all of you died because of childcare costs/logistics.

It's a wonder any of us were born at all

I say go for it.We have 4 DC's but with bigger age gaps,eldest 22 and youngest 6,only 3 at home now.
We are lucky in that we have very good income,twice OP's,but obviously children are expensive.
All 3 dc,s still at home do activities,we holiday a couple of times a year but our mortgage is comparitively small compared to income and we extended before dc4 born so have 5 bedrooms.
If you are not paying for child care then in the short term I don't think a fourth child will be that expensive,obv you will have alot of equipment already.
Car wise yes,you will need a 7 seater.

I have to say, the way you were talking I was expecting a much larger income than £40k.
We are on around the same and can't afford a second, let alone a fourth. How on earth do you do it?
I must be a complete spendthrift.

I was thinking of having 4 kids for a while there, then I had one!

I realised how much hard work it actually is, and even though I still love the idea of a big family, I think we'll stop at two. I hope I feel satisfied with two when it happens though, as I have just had my first 4 months ago and really feel like we've just started our family. I'm worried I'll feel similar after another.

I always found the idea of 4 kids really nice, but then I thought about when they're lanky teens slouching around the place, not so cute then! This thread has helped me to focus on the benefits to only having two, I love my holidays as well!

OP YANBU, if that's what you want then there's no reason why you shouldn't have it. The space issue will sort itself, they can share, it won't kill them. Everyone used to, this idea that kids must always have their own space is quite new! Having said that, my sister and I shared a tiny boxroom until I was 16 and left home, that was hard.

Having four dcs is wonderful. It is hard work but worth it. The fun they have together is lovely to see. I can't imagine only having one or two dcs (out of choice).

I have three siblings and so have experienced being part of a large family. I would have hated to have been an only. My mum was great and I never felt I missed out.

It is expensive having four dcs but currently we can manage on one salary so when they get older I'll go back to work because I'm well aware they will want more expensive clothes, uni expenses etc.

I question some of the negatives views about having four dcs. Have they even been brought up in a large family? Do they even have four plus dcs? If not, then they don't really undestand the joy that a large family can bring.

As for the comments on children getting less time with their parents if they're from a large family I have to laugh big time. All my time is spent with the kids. There is no me time. A sacrifice I'm happy to make. Many parents with one or two dcs are out a lot of the time doing their own things and socialising. I question how much these families really spend with their kids by comparison!

I asked my eldest if he would like to be an only or just have one brother and he told me no way! I guess that summarises things up nicely. He loves his brothers and sister too much.

Four kids is very rewarding op. If you feel somebody is missing then deep down you know what the answer is.

And back to the age old question of what is a high income! 40 grand for a single earner (so higher tax, also op, a lot higher pension contributions from now on so don't expect much more per month on 50 grand either) is not a huge amount. It gives you money for extra curricular stuff, clarks shoes, a holiday, more meals out, but it isn't living it up. We've done it all, from free milk vouchers to that salary and higher, and those have been the main differences, also less worry about incidental expenses like birthdays. But that's for a whole other thread I expect, been done to death on here a million times already

Having read through the thread, I think op is coming across as very inflexible, and quite selfish.

Eg. Dcs can only have one hobby - that's life. Well, it will be life for them but it doesn't have to be. My 5 y o already 'has' to do swimming and wants to do football, because every boy in his class does. Which will you say no to?

Dcs won't have tutors because I didn't like tutors - really? Even if they are struggling and their future prospects depend on it.

My dcs won't have holidays because I don't like holidays. Again. I didn't like my family holidays for much the same reason you didn't like yours I think - my parents were being selfish and only doing what suited them. We will look for holidays everyone enjoys. But you are being just as selfish as your parents.

And finally, wanting a house full of friendship. Well, an extra sibling might enhance that or it might detract from it. Children are a gamble. You don't know what their personalities will be like, if they will get on or hate each other, if they will like sharing rooms or walk away swearing to only have one child (like my friend). Another sibling might tip the balance into discomfort for anyone. It might not, but you are being blinkered to refuse to consider the possibility.

It all depends on where you live, again.

It's a small town, things are cheap, we get tons of free produce and eggs from my FIL who has a small farm. The local school is good and free and does not have a uniform. My DS played soccer, T-ball, went to literacy hour and a preschool sports sampler this summer, for less than $90 for all. We can go camping or to museums without taking massive holidays.

My aunt and uncle lived and worked in Manhattan before moving just outside it. Their costs for their daughter are astronomical. I could support five kids on what they pay.

Finances are not all that matters, though.

If they were, everyone would have one child. No matter how much money, time, and resources you have, they will be halved the second you have another child.

But money is not the end all be all.

That's what I'm going for, Maryz . :o

Totally agree with Tryingtoleave and cantspel.

Thanks for all new comments.

As I've said on quite a few occasions, I don't feel my DCs are deprived by not going on holiday abroad - we would not go no matter how much money we had or how many children we had, it's a personal preference.

And no, I won't pay for private tuition for them either. I hope my children will do well at school but if they struggle I will support them as much as I can, whilst also having them know that academic success is not the "be all and end all." I don't consider that inflexible - I just can't pretend to be pushy where academic success is concerned.

At any rate, there is a lot to think about and a lot to decide but I'm sure we'll reach the decision that best suits us, as a family.

If you can't afford tutoring for your kids, that doesn't make you a bad parent, no - just a skint one. But you are pretending it somehow makes you a better parent, because you "can't pretend to be pushy". That does annoy me. It's it's a fairly unsubtle attempt to pretend that a financially-forced inability to help your kids is somehow a moral decision. If educational advantage were that unimportant, so would your husband's career choice be.

Lots of people on here will be making real sacrifices to help their kids achieve to the very best of their potential. My own mother did, when I moved schools twice in the secondary years so struggled with maths. Admittedly this was in the late 80s when it was genuinely quite difficult to get a maths GCSE at C or above, but if she hadn't, I probably wouldn't have got a C and that might have meant my chances of a good university were kyboshed. And I was academic, when it came to the arts, so far from being "pushy" it ensured I reached my potential. Which is, you know - what a parent is meant to do, to the best of their ability.

There is a huge difference between a hothousing and a supportive parent. Both may decide they need to resort to private tutoring.

Some people dont think educational advantage is that important to have tutoring, same as they dont think husbands career choice is.My dds could marry binmen for all I care.

Her husband is a deputy headteacher. Therefore at least one of the parents in this family believes in the importance of education. Or at least, you'd hope.

Perfectstorm, would you mind indicating where I said that it made me a better parent? If you read that into my posts then I apologise but I certainly did not say it!

I can honestly, hand on heart, say that private tutoring made no difference to me whatsoever and while as a parent I will do whatever I can to support my children in their future it isn't something I "expect" to have to provide at any point in the future for any of mine. That doesn't mean I'll stand back and let them struggle, it means I'll evaluate it at the time but in all honesty I have little faith in the benefits of a private tutor - I feel its importance is massively exaggerated to be honest. You obviously don't feel that way; I respect that - can you respect my point of view on the matter and not try to claim I am doing my DCs some sort of disservice? It's hurtful, if I am honest.

I fully expected when I made this thread for people to point out some things I'd thought of and others I hadn't in relation to having a fourth child. I'm grateful for that. But when you say - "no, this isn't really how we do things as a family" and people won't let it drop and make you out to be a bad parent - I'm sorry but I think that's really, really out of order. I wish I had a way of showing you how loved, well provided for, cared for and doted on my three DCs are; I wish I could show you our house, though small, is in a 'nice' (naice? ) area, nicely maintained and is a secure and happy home for our children, I wish I could show you the loving care with which we selected DD's school and what we do to make those children happy, they are our world, being a bit cynical about private tutoring and not wanting to travel abroad doesn't change that. I sincerely do not believe I am or my DH is a bad parent. Please, please stop insinuating that we are.

If you say that you "can't pretend to be pushy where academic success is concerned" when dismissing tutoring for your children, you are strongly implying that parents who use tutors are pushy, which is a straightforwardly derogatory parenting term.

We've already decided our 3 year old won't be applying to the local grammar when the time comes, because the entrance exam is now customarily tutored-for for 2 years beforehand or a kid stands no hope. The exam is extremely coachable, unfortunately, and one private school in particular has apparently never had an applicant child fail to obtain a place. (It's a top-rated school, and has no catchment - kids travel from surrounding counties to go, and 90% of those applying right now don't make the grade.) That, to me, is unacceptably pushy and places grossly unfair demands and expectations on a pre-teen child. If that's what you experienced at school age then I understand your response to it, and determination not to put your kids through it. But some kids do need extra help just to keep up, for whatever reasons. Giving them that help is not pushy. And tutoring, if the tutor is good, can make a huge difference. They can teach to the exam, for a start, as well as reinforce areas the child is weak and plug gaps, compensate for a poor subject teacher in the school... and build confidence. A poor tutor is wasted money, agreed. Mine was not. I actually began to enjoy maths after a term with her - I'd hated it before.

I do think your kids sound very loved, and I have previously posted to say I think in your shoes I'd have another. I think the holidays point is silly (there will be a lifetime to go abroad - we never did when I was small because my mother was poor and my brother SN; I have always understood that, and slaked my wanderlust later on) and I think the idea that the kids may hate one another is, too. That applies equally (IMO even more) to 2, and nobody tries to raise it then. But I don't think it is fair to say parents who try to support struggling kids the best way they can are "pushy".

Oh, and my mother has dyscalculia. Your DH is a maths and science teacher. In that situation, I can't see you needing a tutor either - instill a love of recreational reading, and the arts can take care of themselves; maths, and you need someone capable of explaining. When your mother counts on her fingers and still gets the answers wrong - my toddler has been known to correct her, accurately - that's not an option. So no, I don't think I'd worry about it in your position, either.

I apologise for that and retract it: I was thinking very specifically of my own parents and should have explained that. You may have gathered I had a very unhappy childhood and tutoring was a large part of that.

I do not however think that all parents who use tutors are pushy.

Thankfully we don't live in an area with grammar schools :)

Oh dear OP. At 11 you don't select the school in the state system (or the indy system for that matter although the choice is greater); even where there is no selection, the schools select the children depending on the criteria. Are you honestly telling me that if your children missed the outstanding comp in the leafy area by ten places and got into the comp on special measures down the road which had difficulty attracting good specialist academic teachers that you seriously would not consider patching in a bit of maths (or other critical subject) tuition.

Don't think every child and parent are compatible in this relationship and although your dh is a maths/science specialist at 13/14/15 the problems could be with a child going through a very bolshi, vulnerable, difficult phase and parents are not always automatically the person they will list to or who can reach the parts that others can't.

Marriedinwhite, I don't know where you live but the situation you describe doesn't happen here.

The kids all just go to the local comp and very good it is too

But this is not about private tuition, if you are determined to think I am scuppering my DCs chances then in a sense, so be it, I know better.