to want to draw a line between housewife and personal butler?

[elk4baby]

Please kick some sense in me, as I am actually contemplating divorce over DH's dirty clothes... . (apologies for a bit of a rant here)

We're a good couple, married for 7 years now, so we've been through the roller-coaster of early marriage and things have now settled. It's possible I'm just being picky here, but seriously, where do you draw the line between housewife and personal butler?!

Here's what I mean: Yesterday, I had to iron three shirts to produce a presentable one. The reason? Simple: I found stains as I ironed the first two. We've had a number of fights over him not looking over his shirt when he takes it off. He still doesn't !, but at least he's stopped putting them back in the wardrobe. It is now my job to look them over and see whether they go in the wash or back on the hanger .

What happened yesterday was this: I'd put the selected shirts for the week on the ironing board to get them ironed but did not yet get around to doing this (was busy with the kids, was waiting for their bedtime to get to it). They were definitely all clean. However, I got to ironing two of the first three had black stains on them. My guess is that, DH either carried some tools over them (the iron shares the room with his DIY stuff) and didn't notice himself making the smudges or they were caused by the dirty home/DIY clothes we took off and simply threw on top of the shirts. Am I unreasonable to get frustrated over this?!

Of course, I got angry (and I'm not good at holding in emotions). We got into a fight over the shirts, moved on to his dirty clothes thrown on the ironing board, or the bedroom floor, or the top of the boxes in the utility room... Apparently, he expects me to be the 'housewife', which implies I know exactly where everything is and where it goes and I should basically 'take care' of him, as he put it.

I understand there's an unsaid agreement between us - he goes to work and earns money, I stay at home with the children, keeping the house and cooking. Fine, I get that. But is it really that unreasonable to expect a grown man to keep track of his clothes - put the dirty stuff in the laundry bin, clean stuff back in its place? Why is it my job to pick up the stuff after him, having to guess how many times it's been worn and where it needs to go? I married the guy, but I didn't sign up to 'sniffing his socks'!

I don't iron habitually. I hate it with a passion. If something I really want to wear is crumbled and I can't find a passable alternative, I will grudgingly break out the iron and swear to myself the whole time I'm using it

I will never understand people who iron everything, especially those like my stepfather who ENJOY it

Anyway. I would be hopping mad with the "D" H in the OP. Making my job harder is bad enough, but to then give me attitude over it and lay on expectations for me to trail after him, picking up all the extra bits of mess as though it's my raison d'être....

I have made it very clear to my H that while I'm more than happy to take charge of the laundry because he's shockingly bad at it I will only wash clothes he leaves in the laundry basket. If he wants to leave piles of pants in the ensuite after his shower, that's fine. But I will not pick them up, save to chuck them into the rubbish bag when I empty the bins. He's had to buy a couple of new packs of undies to replace lost ones but I think it's just about sinking in

We had a good talk yesterday. It all started with me surprising myself and telling him everything I thought of our whole family set up, using some of the brilliant arguments given here. Apparently, he didn't realize he stopped being grateful for the 'favours' I'm doing him, so promised to emphasize the 'thanks' a bit more and pick up his stuff after himself. We'll see how that works out... :)

Of course, natural as it is, he did argue that he's doing a lot to keep the house running too. Like all the DIY stuff I would never dream of doing - like plumbing or cleaning the roof or fitting new lights. To be fair, there really is a lot of work to be done, we moved in a year ago and still haven't actually started any decorating at all - it's all been repairs of things neglected by the previous owners. He didn't see the ironing/picking up clothes and all that as a big 'to do' on the list and figured I had the time and didn't mind. While I really don't mind the actual ironing, it pisses me right off having to do the same job, any job, twice and to have it expected of me by default. I made sure it was perfectly clear that I refuse to accept anything bordering on personal hygiene and if he ever gets this attitude like all the routine housework is my job, I'll simply quit doing it. He agreed :).

Now, we've spent about three hours talking, so ended up coming to a conclusion that we're both just a bit overwhelmed by the house (both routine upkeep and DIY), as we've only ever rented flats. So the whole load of new things on our 'to do' was a bit too much and we just didn't handle the change properly. We've agreed to sit down together and work out who does what and why (e.g. I physically cannot do plumbing - know nothing about it and have really weak hands) and where we need to hire someone.

He also agreed to give me proper time off, out of the house-kids-cooking routine. He seemed to have understood that while none of the tasks I'm doing are difficult, it's the sheer volume of them and the lack of any 'on-off' rhythm that's driving me insane. My life just seems all grey, no black or white - it's like I'm a circus horse running the circle 24/7 with no break. So if he actually sticks to his end of the bargain, I'll get a half day of complete freedom every weekend and any ad hoc times I need .

So there, Mumsnet, you created positive change (or least the hope for it) within one family. THANK YOU.

Great! Lovely to hear a positive update :)

I think some people are trying to get in with a certain clique or bandwagon. Just as people slate the DM as it has become the in thing to do on here.

My husband is capable of doing everything for himself. It doesn't make me anything to iron his shirts for him. I do them now, didn't when the babies were little, as I have more time in the home than him. Just as I do things for him, he does things for me. As with him, these are all things I am quite capable of doing but we like to help each other, look after each other and this is part of doing it.

Yes, exactly right, JustFabulous. However, it was the attitude that was the problem, not the actual tasks.

When, as a couple, you do not get much time to communicate properly and to discuss things, misunderstandings are bound to happen. One doesn't see what the other is doing and stops appreciating it, and vice versa.

elk I'm so pleased. Sounds like he is a decent bloke who has just fallen easily into the stereotype.

I actually think that the 'our house is my workplace' attitude is not a bad one to have. If you were leaving your kids with a childminder, you wouldn't expect there to be dirty laundry left lying around, tools in dangerous places, dirty cups, small bits and pieces where family members had emptied their pockets onto tables/shelves etc. You would expect it to be tidy and ready for the CM to do their work of looking after your child.
Same applies if you are a SAHP and have children at home with you - the house needs to be in a reasonable state so that you can actually do that job properly.

I have said a couple of times to DH that it is no good him leaving stuff lying around and disappearing off to work on a Monday morning, it is my 'office' and I need to be able to work here. He was a bit stunned at first, but once he thought it through he realised he was being a pillock not to tidy his own things away.

Fine line though. Place of work for the SAHP but also home for everyone.

Sounds good elk!

Fab of course But no-one likes living in a shit tip

Good for you elk. Sounds great

It is not a clique or bandwagon BTW but a deeply held belief in feminism. I do things around the house but if my DH implied I had to and that it was expected and not appreciated, it would stop dead.

I never understand why women, working or not, suddenly take upon such a pointless waste of time

I wouldn't be seen dead in ironed clothing. It is not a pointless waste of time unless you don't mind looking as if you've got dressed from a pile of clothes on the floor

This sounds really hopeful.

I have a book recommendation for you both - Wifework by Susan Maushart

Also there were a couple of good threads over in feminism last year on 'resisting wifework' - might be worth searching.

Good luck!

elk great news, its sounds like you have a really good partnership there that just got knocked a bit off track by the volume of stuff that needed doing.

I can see what your DH was doing, if he was overwhelmed he was mentally allocating tasks he didn't think he had time to do to you without discussing it with you. I know when I am under pressure, I have to fight the assumption that DH must be under less pressure than me and actually check with him how busy he is rather than assuming he has capacity to do something. I know DH sometimes makes the same assumptions about my capacity to do that extra job or two!