to want to draw a line between housewife and personal butler?

[elk4baby]

Please kick some sense in me, as I am actually contemplating divorce over DH's dirty clothes... . (apologies for a bit of a rant here)

We're a good couple, married for 7 years now, so we've been through the roller-coaster of early marriage and things have now settled. It's possible I'm just being picky here, but seriously, where do you draw the line between housewife and personal butler?!

Here's what I mean: Yesterday, I had to iron three shirts to produce a presentable one. The reason? Simple: I found stains as I ironed the first two. We've had a number of fights over him not looking over his shirt when he takes it off. He still doesn't !, but at least he's stopped putting them back in the wardrobe. It is now my job to look them over and see whether they go in the wash or back on the hanger .

What happened yesterday was this: I'd put the selected shirts for the week on the ironing board to get them ironed but did not yet get around to doing this (was busy with the kids, was waiting for their bedtime to get to it). They were definitely all clean. However, I got to ironing two of the first three had black stains on them. My guess is that, DH either carried some tools over them (the iron shares the room with his DIY stuff) and didn't notice himself making the smudges or they were caused by the dirty home/DIY clothes we took off and simply threw on top of the shirts. Am I unreasonable to get frustrated over this?!

Of course, I got angry (and I'm not good at holding in emotions). We got into a fight over the shirts, moved on to his dirty clothes thrown on the ironing board, or the bedroom floor, or the top of the boxes in the utility room... Apparently, he expects me to be the 'housewife', which implies I know exactly where everything is and where it goes and I should basically 'take care' of him, as he put it.

I understand there's an unsaid agreement between us - he goes to work and earns money, I stay at home with the children, keeping the house and cooking. Fine, I get that. But is it really that unreasonable to expect a grown man to keep track of his clothes - put the dirty stuff in the laundry bin, clean stuff back in its place? Why is it my job to pick up the stuff after him, having to guess how many times it's been worn and where it needs to go? I married the guy, but I didn't sign up to 'sniffing his socks'!

I just don't get the 'if you weren't at home looking after his kids he wouldn't be able to go out and earn the money' points that are usually made on threads like this.

Much of the population work full time. Single parents and families where both parents work manage with a sahp. I would earn exactly the same amount if my dh were a sahp. Dh would earn exactly the same if I were a sahp.

manage without a sahp

Yama, you miss the point.

If the OP wasn't at home with the children he would have to pay someone else to look after the kids. It isn't difficult to understand.

If you were a sahp your household income wouldn't be the same though would it? Once there are children young enough to require care someone has to care for them - like you we both work do we pay someone else to do it. But if we didn't one of us would have to give up or substantially reduce work instead.

I understand nursery fees. I have paid them as a single parent and as part of a married partnership. Not having a sahp has never prevented me from earning money.

Lots of us do it.

I am firmly on the op's side. I just don't think the argument that she 'lets' or 'enables' him is a very good one. I believe this issue is about respect.

Yama - OP is saving the family budget money by looking after the DC herself. If they both went out to work, the family income would be higher, but so would the outgoings (cost of childcare - and in this case, also cleaner, ironer, cook and general skivvy). OP would need to earn more than the cost of replacing herself at home for this approach to be financially profitable. Whether it's worthwhile for other reasons depends on your personal views.

Yama, you just aren't getting it, are you?

x-post Yama, nobody is saying that there are not other ways to care for the DCs and therefore enable them to work, just that they would not be free.

Which bit don't you understand?!

The basic point is that her effort does have a financial value which is superficially invisible. And amounts to half of whatever her DH earns...

I still maintain this issue is about respect.

IsitMeOr - thanks for trying to explain in a nice way. I do see that someone saying at home saves money on childcare costs.

And as my posts early in the thread will testify to - I am on the op's side.

Children arent free, basically Yama. You spend money on nursery fees so you can work - you wouldn't if you didn't have children.

What I earned before having DSs is pretty good (I have a degree in a well-paid field). But considering childcare costs for 2 youngsters, I would be bringing in negligible add-on benefit on top of covering these with my net salary. And my children would not benefit from having mum around at their young age.

I agree the ops husband doesn't appear to respect her. Sadly this appears at least in part to be because she doesn't respect herself.

Elk no one is saying you should be in paid employment. Just that what you do does have economic value.

No worries Yama .

It's definitely about respect. The standard MN line is also about respecting the SAHP contribution, which can tend to be under-valued by society at the moment. I read something a while back making the distinction between productive (e.g. making things like cars, buildings, etc) and reproductive (e.g. caring for children, food, cleaning, basic life sustaining stuff) work. It definitely seems that societally we place much more value on the former than the latter, and yet it is truly only the latter that is essential. Go figure!

I am speechless

I just couldn't put up with this shit, personally

I have no advice other than going completely on strike

I work FT, dh is SAHD and he does about 75% of housework

I would never dream of disrespecting him or calling him out on anything he didn't have time to do!

AND I GO TO WORK AND EARN A BLOODY GOOD WAGE FOR THE FAMILY BUT IT'S OUR MONEY, OUR HOUSE, OUR KIDS AND AN EQUAL HOUSEHOLD AND I DON'T EXPECT GRATITUDE OR SERVITUDE

And breathe

I picked up a couple of posters saying op's husband "wouldn't be able to work" without her at home. I merely pointed out that this is not necessarily true and that imo the issue is about respect.

I understand that children cost money. I have children. I pay for them. I am able to pay for them without a sahp. I am going round in circles and I suspect soon someone will pop up snidely saying "which part do you not understand?".

He comes from a very patriarchal family. His mum, to be fair, really does 'everything' in the home, even irons the dad's and elder brother's underwear (that's on top of her having a PhD in Physics ). So, I guess, that's why he expect the same of me. (Mind you, I do not and never will iron his underwear).

My lack of self respect.... Well, not to sound too cliche, but my mum worked from home and many years earned more than my dad. Then, when the tables turned, he stopped respecting her, because she was no longer bringing in the lion share of the money. He still patronizes her for not earning as much as he does. While I understand that this is not healthy, it's sometimes difficult to consciously walk away from these notions.

When he told you he expected you to "look after him" I bet you've never wanted him more eh?

That's not a partner, that's a child.

I just don't understand how you've drifted into being treated like this. That's the bit that mystifies me. I'm with you on the patriarchal background - not one woman in my husbands family has done a stroke of paid work since marrying, let alone having children. But I didn't want to be like them and made it v clear from day dot that if Dh wanted a wife who would be, I wasn't for him.

Your mil is a dogsbody and your father looks down on your mother - did you never think before these were not positive role models?

My first reaction?! : I told him I'm not his mother, FFS! :)

Mind you, his mother is a touchy topic, so we both walked away from the conversation at this point.

He wouldn't be able to go to worl without paying someone to lok after his kids.

Well, the reasonable part of me knows the whole 'not healthy' role models thing... but it's difficult to convince the more unreasonable, sub-conscious part

I think Yama's point is absolutely right - the DP would still be able to work if the SAHM suddenly disappeared into thin air, but he would have to pay for a large number of jobs that are currently done by the SAHM. So it is inaccurate to say that having a SAHP 'allows' the other parent to work.

However, that's not really the point for the OP!