To think that Ian Brady...

[KittyFane1]

is playing a sick game.
His final victim is Winnie Johnson who is desperate to find her son Keith Bennet on the moors. She has terminal cancer and not long to live.
IB has been on hunger strike for years and wants to move out of the psychiatric hospital.
There is now, or rather, may or may not be a letter revealing where Keith is. Tormenting this woman in her final days.

Would it be unreasonable to tell IB that he can be moved if he stops this sick game, refusing to say where Keith is buried and if he does, not give him what he wants after all?

I can't believe she gave it back to him. I bet he's loving the control he has over people. How does she live with herself?

JumpingThroughHoops Apparently she inadvertently mentioned it during the making of a documentary about Brady, in which she was taking part. Which raises the question of whether she really did slip up, or whether she has become very sympathetic with Brady's aims and the reveal was deliberate, in order to bring it out and give him some bargaining power in his quest to be allowed to die.

The whole thing sounds confusing. I can aappreciate that a legal advocate would have a duty of client confidentiality which might prevent her passing information to the police. Why then have the police charged her?

I truly hope that Keith's poor mother is being shielded from this news, as has been reported.

I also really really hope that IB will have a long, painful and torturous existence.

Kitty yes, actually, it would have been nice if the press could have agreed to keep this quiet and allow the police to investigate without the glare of publicity.

Birds wow, just read that. So as. his advocate she couldn't possibly tell the police but could tell C4!!! STUPID WOMAN!!

Mildred yes, I hope he lasts a while yet if he wants to go...

I once worked with someone who had previously worked in the hospital where Brady is usually held, and who said they'd seen him once (they didn't work closely with patients) and that he looked much more solid and imposing than you would think for a man of that age and given everything reported about his health. That was in about 2001/2 so after the force feeding had begun.

Dawndonna i'm thinking about what you have said, and what I said just now about Hindley being in awe of him. Do you think he could, albeit in a lesser way, have been pulling some strings with this advocate? Not meaning romantically but emotionally.

If this is true, is it possible that our penal system has not changed him in any way after all these years, but physically weak as he obviously is, he is still able to manipulate psychologically. If true, and I'm shocked that I'm even thinking this, but it's almost an argument for the death penalty (and I'd never have dreamed I'd have ever thought of an argument for that).

^property* she's not a legal advocate shes a "mental health advocate" so client priveledge confidentiality doesnt apply as it would with lawyer or solicitor.
I being Scottish think of advocate being a lawyer btw but a mental health advocate is supposed to be an independent person to help the patient

It was the woman herself who told a documentary maker about thses letters but is now saying she's not sure where they are, or something

Thats why I think Brady gave them to HER not a solicitor to pass on

control and manipulation through and through

I always felt uneasy seeing footage of him in the late 80s up on the Moors "helping" and suspect he "allowed" one body to be found then
He must have really got off on the control etc in that situation

C4: 'Ian Brady. End games of a psychopath' Monday.

Sorry can't agree with you there Kitty. If it wasn't for the BBC making this documentary this would never have come out.

The man making it spoke to this woman and she spoke about this letter. The BBC man {sorry don't know his name} asked her why she hadn't given it to the police. He than decided to go to the police himself as he wasn't happy with her answers.

I'm not sure why it's taken this long to come out to the general public, but I expect the Keith Bennets family would have been informed at the time and for once the story hasn't been leaked to the press. by the police

The woman said Brady told her the letter contained the whereabouts of Keith's body, so she did understand what was in the letter and so can be charged.

Do you think he could, albeit in a lesser way, have been pulling some strings with this advocate?

Yes he is a true psychopath. He manipulates people. He isn't allowed to have regular prison guards to avoid such situations happening. So how the hell he was allowed a dedicated MH advocate I have no idea.

sorry x posted with everyone.

Brady likes power, he likes to act in a way that gives him the illusion of power, hence why he occassionaly answers people's letters.

The hardest part of prison for him, is the loss of power.

It is unfair to accuse the MHA as being under some 'spell' as she is fulfiling her job role, by considering his interests.

I thought that too Jumping.

It really is the only explanation as to why this woman would put a child killer's wishes before a grieving Mother's.

Quick I meant the current news, not the documentary. I think current news should be held back until there is a found letter.

I think he's definitely playing a game. The way Peter Tobin refuses to say a word about any of the probably many murders he has committed.

So how the hell he was allowed a dedicated MH advocate I have no idea

He has to under the MHA otherwise he could sue the government.

He refuses to have steady prison guards because he believes that they sell their stories, also Ashworth has had many scandals, which don't always reach the press.

Brady is a sadistic evil bastard and i really hope he is in pain. Can i ask what the connection is between Little Drummer Boy and Lesley Anne Downey?

It really is the only explanation as to why this woman would put a child killer's wishes before a grieving Mother's.

Again you won't undersatnd it, outside of the job, but you don't think of your client in that way. You would not be doing your job, if you thought about the victims of crimes before your client.

Can i ask what the connection is between Little Drummer Boy and Lesley Anne Downey?

it was on in the background as they tortured her

carer they played it whilst torturing her and recording themselves torturing her. :(

"Can i ask what the connection is between Little Drummer Boy and Lesley Anne Downey?"

They played it whilst torturing her to death.

Growlithe
Whilst I think there is absolutely no argument on earth for the death penalty, I am inclined to agree. Brady has never shown remorse. He is frighteningly intelligent. The whole thing, including his 'right to die' spoutings are a manipulation. Let's face it, there are many, many who have managed exactly that, Shipman et al. If he had, at any point, genuinely wanted to die, I strongly suspect it could have been achieved. Equally, I think it's quite likely that successive governments have always wanted a 'bogeyman' and Brady has played the role well.
I do think it highly likely that he has manipulated the worker concerned, I do think it highly likely that the penal system has done nothing, but then again, he has serious mental health problems, so serious that it was unlikely that the system was ever going to do anything. There was never a hope of rehabilitation. That though, does not mean a death sentence should follow.

carernotasaint I don't know much detail (and am glad I don't) but I think it was playing in the background. She was abducted on Boxing Day. Brady and Hindley made tape recordings of their killings.