To Sack my Maid of Honour?

[ViviPru]

Ok, so perhaps not that dramatic, but I'm considering relieving my friend of some of her 'duties' for our wedding.

We're planning a very relaxed wedding and don't have a traditional bridal party as such, but we want our close friends to feel included and valued. When we got engaged, the conversation with one of my good friends turned to what sort of role she'd like to play, between us we agreed she would organise a hen do, wear a dress (of her choosing) that was in keeping with the colour scheme (we'd always commented it was our shared favourite colour and she couldn't wait till DP and I got married one day so she could finally wear a dress she liked - been a bridesmaid loads of times and been made to wear some shockers in the past), we talked about her potentially coming down the aisle if she wanted and carrying a bouquet. Tantamount to a maid of honour role, really.

She appeared to be keen and I let her lead the conversations when it came to working out the level of involvement she'd be comfortable with.

Now I most certainly do not expect anyone other than our parents to place any great importance on our wedding, but given the role she has agreed to play, I'm finding her lack of enthusiasm and my struggle to engage her with anything wedding related is now starting to make me feel a bit . It's really come home to me this week, I'd been burying my feelings but DP's best man has been setting the wheels in motion for the stag do with such enthusiasm which has highlighted to me the stark contrast with my friend. The only things I've asked her to do about a month ago are to look at a particular website of dresses to see if there's anything she likes, and to perhaps come up with some initial thoughts about possible hen ideas.

I spoke to her this evening and after an hour and a half of her telling me about her life, I tentatively brought up the subject of dresses and she said she'd been too busy to look, then the subject drifted onto other things... I couldn't even bring myself to mention the hen do after that.

She briefly acknowledged her lack of wedding-related interest, but said she'd been really busy lately (she is busy, its true) and suggested we have another chat at the weekend. Now considering I've been trying to schedule tonights chat for over a week, this had the air of the final straw about it for me.

I think she just is too busy for the level of involvement/organisational responsibility we initially agreed. I knew she was busy when we decided it, but I thought that her enthusiasm would make up for that but it hasn't. She also lives abroad so while this shouldn't make a massive difference in this day and age, it makes quick, frequent catch-ups less feasible.

I've another very good friend who lives in the next city and I know would be amazing at organising a hen do, and would love to be asked. I'm thinking of emailing friend 1 tomorrow and gently explaining that I think it would be easier if friend 2 sets the wheels in motion with the hen do, and calls on friend 1 for a bit of support as and when? I've kind of regretted not asking friend 2 to be a bridesmaid, but I was never going to have any anyway. I know it would really mean a lot to her, so I think if I go down this route I may ask her if she'd like to wear a 'bridesmaidy' dress and lead the search for their dresses too?

What do you think, AIBU to send that email? Am I just a sap who needs to man the fuck up? I just don't want to be that bratty bride

"Lacking you clearly have a more traditional view of weddings and bridal parties than I (or my friend) do"

not in the slightest, you are spectacularly missing my point!
I don't see a wedding as bride plus groom plus matching numbers of girls on the brides side and boys on the grooms side, I didn't have that

I don't think you need bridesmaids or groomsmen or anything other than the couple

Its totally fine to just say "nah, not doing that", not so fine to say you don't want the traditional, then get miffed when the traditional isn't happening!

From your post, I took I want the shopping and the special involved friends to dress shop with! to mean going specifically bridal shopping with a gaggle of girlfriends for my dress and bridesmaid dresses. That's not happening. What IS happening is I have offered to buy her a dress in her favourite colour which is also a bit of a colour theme at the wedding, but of her choosing so she can get something she'll wear again. She knows this is the case.

that's a bridesmaid dress! how is that not a bridesmaids dress?
that's wedding stuff shopping! how is it not?
mine chose their own too, one of them online, was still a bridesmaid activiy! If you're not bothered about having a bridesmaid, and not keen to do wedding stuff shopping with her, then why does it bother you whether she has or has not a dress for a wedding she's attending next April?

Lacking, are you teh OP's friend? I cannot for the life of me see why you are getting so bogged down in the semantics here.

I see that you're point is that I've told her I don't want a bridesmaid then I've got upset because she won't do traditional bridesmaid things. My point is that I've agreed with her to fulfil a certain role, and I'm deflated that she's not fulfilling that role.

How does what you call it make any difference? Did you read the conversation I transcribed above? She has a clearly defined role, it even has a title of sorts. Bot things she proposed and agreed to. She knows what my expectations of her are. Its not that I'm not keen to do wedding stuff shopping with her, physically going shopping together for the wedding is not something we discussed that she would do and also not feasible as we live on two different landmasses.

Since she's lived abroad, from time to time we go virtual shopping together and ping links back and forth. I'd looked forward to doing that sort of thing with her for her dress in this instance.

how is it semantics, the OP is about the OP being disappointed about this friend not doing weddingey bridesmaidey stuff, at least not with enough urgency or enthusiasm, when she had told this friend that she neither wanted or needed any of that stuff

How can the friend win?, whichever way she acts she is going back on one or other of the things the OP said

Thumb I'm amazed you've managed to wade through mine and Lackings exchanges sufficiently to be moved to make a post about it. You deserve some sort of AIBU special achievement award... It's fatiguing me and its my bloody thread

when she had told this friend that she neither wanted or needed any of that stuff See this is the crux of it that you've misunderstood. I HAVE told the friend what I want and need. it just happens not to have been under the title of 'bridesmaid'

I can grasp the concept of shopping online with links, one of mine was in America when we did virtual wedding stuff shopping (tip, go for international chains then she can try on there and you can buy here and not worry about import charges)

But you do seem to say that you're not into that sort of thing, and that you don't like it, but you do

IMO YOU are the one getting hung up on the BM/MOH label, because all that saying "I don't want or need bridesmaids" translates as is not wanting things exactly like what you are describing as wanting - like the shopping for her co-ordinating dress etc

Seem to say yes your interpretation of what I'm saying, not actually what I said.

I think of 'bridesmaids' as different to a Maid of Honour, I played a similar role as my sister's wedding. I had a co-ordinating outfit. I organised the hen do. My sister didn't want or need bridesmaids, or in more specific terms, a group of girls dressed in matching dresses. I didn't even have a title, thinking about it. We just had a mature discussion when she got engaged about the involvement she'd like me to have. And that's what I agreed to and that's what I did. Precisely the same as what happened with my friend when we got engaged.

"My sister didn't want or need bridesmaids, or in more specific terms, a group of girls dressed in matching dresses." bridesmaids aren't always matchy, or a big group, think that's you putting too much of a rigid definition to it

"I played a similar role as my sister's wedding. I had a co-ordinating outfit. I organised the hen do"
if you dont' want or need bridesmaids or a wedding party, you don't have people in coordinating outfits, you just have a bride and groom, and a witness. I've been a non-BM witness, I turned up in a dress that wasn't discussed with the bride just a normal guest dress, and didn't walk up the isle, just went up from my seat in the congregation when a witness was required for the certificate.
And if you don't need or want bridesmaids, you either plan your own hen do, or you don't have one.

These are bridesmaid roles, but you're so hung up on NOT CALLING THEM BRIDESMAID ACTIVITIES that what you actually want seems to have been lost in translation!
cause.. well you're not getting what you want are you?

Thanks Vivi

My DS was my only bridesmaid and did everything you're expecting your MOD to do. Bit confused by the difference you see in the two roles. However the main thing to sort seems to be th date of the hen-do and then the details can follow closer to the time. It's probably best not to have it the same weekend as the stag if you have friends with children. Even confirming this to your friends with DC would probably be enough info for them of the time being.

Finally make sure you spend as much time talking about what's important to you with your friend as what's important to her

She briefly acknowledged her lack of wedding-related interest, but said she'd >been really busy lately (she is busy, its true) and suggested we have another >chat at the weekend. Now considering I've been trying to schedule tonights >chat for over a week, this had the air of the final straw about it for me.

Sounds like you are a bit quick off the mark with her - whatever her role is, she is clearly really really busy right now but has suggested talking another time, so why not cut her some slack? Maybe she needed to talk about her life for 90 mins as to her that is more important right now, just as to you the wedding is. As she mightn't be as involved as she originally wanted to be, just gradually take over what she thought she might do....

What you should want a moh type person for is for the support on the day, someone to have a bit of a giggle with etc. If she isn't into organising things then so be it....and fgs stop saying she's flaky etc.

Ask yourself if what you want from a moh type person - is it support and fun? Or for them to be a good event manager? If the latter, then this clearly isn't the right person for the role..

if you don't need or want bridesmaids, you either plan your own hen do, or you don't have one. Who says? Who says the friend who has called herself Matron of Honour and wanted to organise a hen do shouldn't organise a hen do? That was one of the things she said she'd like to do. So I don't think it's unfair of me to expect her to do it. I've already conceded on this thread that yes, it is a bit early and I accepted that. I've also accepted that I need to be more explicit.

I'm not hung up on not calling it bridesmaid activities, call it bridesmaid activity if it pleases you. I just don't think that my friend is behaving like she is because she'd not been called a bridesmaid.

from the sounds of it, the only parts of having bridesmaids that you DON'T want is a bigish group all in matchey gowns
but you're saying you don't want the BM package, when you DO want everything else that comes in the package, except matching gowns and mroe than two.. see, that's why YOU are experssing a lack of enthusiasm about the parts of having bridesmaids which you actually DO want and it seems to be spreading

"if you don't need or want bridesmaids, you either plan your own hen do, or you don't have one. Who says?"

who says, well why have something you don't want?, unless you DO want that sort of thing? then have it! But say that you do!, don't in one breath say that you dont' want that stuff then in the next breath say you do

its not compulsary, none of it is except giving notice, turning up and having 2 (is it?) witnesses

so you can have as much of the extra stuff on top of it as you do or don't want.
Just make it clear! so that people are sure about what to act on and what to take with a pinch of salt!

Giraffes I felt it was the final straw as every conversation I've had with her since we got engaged and had the first chat about her role, no mention has been made of the wedding at all. That's not really been a massive issue, I don't expect her to talk about it all the time, but I was a bit fed up when we specifically arranged to talk about a couple of wedding-related things, and this chat has been postponed over and over again, and she was so dismissive when I tentatively mentioned the dresses. I admit the 'final straw' is a bit strong.

fgs stop saying she's flaky I don't keep saying she's flaky. I said my DP thinks she's flaky. Once.

Ask yourself if what you want from a moh type person What I want from the MoH type person is to help organise a hen do and feel like a special part of the day, on the day. We agreed that one of the ways to achieve this was by wearing a co-ordinating dress. Things I've been clear to her about.

well why have something you don't want?, unless you DO want that sort of thing? then have it! But say that you do!, don't in one breath say that you dont' want that stuff then in the next breath say you do

I'm not saying I don't want a hen do, just that originally I was never that fussed about some massive expensive weekend away, to be honest I hadn't given it any thought until I first spoke to my friend. She brought it up and we agreed she'd organise it. She is aware that we need to think about dates sooner rather than later, even for something low-key. I've not been ambiguous at all.

What I want from the MoH type person is to help organise a hen do and feel >like a special part of the day, on the day. We agreed that one of the ways to >achieve this was by wearing a co-ordinating dress. Things I've been clear to >her about.

but don't you also want her emotional investment from now on? Enthusiasm and excitement? Maybe you feel that she isn't that into it and that is disappointing you....Maybe step away from the specifics, and ask her if she'd like you to organise the hen and see how she reacts? You could probably take the cue from her. I imagine that deep down what you really want is someone who really wants to be there for and with you and will take it seriously whether or not she has time right now to look at dresses etc. Only you can judge that, so only you can know whether yabu

Yes, you're right giraffes. I guess I assumed that emotional investment, enthusiasm and excitement would be a given from one of my best friends. That's what we're getting from every one else, without even remotely courting it.

I may well have underestimated her current emotional wellbeing, she's fed up with her life. But she's been fed up with her life for years now, so I guess I've just become desensitised to it. For the most part, she's fun and upbeat, so I sometimes forget and perhaps put unrealistic expectations on her. I will give her the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks for your insightful post.

you're welcome! Hope you have a lovely day and fun at the hen do. If you really like your friend, hope that things work out between you.

FWIW my person who i called bridesmaid just showed up on the day in a dress I'd never even seen but was non-clashing with mine....she walked me up the aisle, held my hand later when I needed it and it was really lovely. She had had a bereavement and baby in quick succession just before the wedding so I didn't ask her to do anything else. It was a very bonding experience. Looking back, a hen that involved going away with lots of friends, organised by one of them would have been amazing instead of me cooking a big dinner for them all instead (although that was a really fun night!) but really, I think friendship and support on the day are the most important things...instead of thinking of her as the one who will help the organisation, maybe think of her as the one you will be interacting with the most on the day (other than your dh) and see how that feels.

Vivipru, in view of your latest post, I think your friend isn't that much of a friend, sorry. She may be fed up with her life, and possibly depressed and a bit envious of you marrying and being happy. She is happy to tell you her woes for an hour and a half and monopolise the conversation.

Talk to her and say that you think you are putting too much pressure on her about the hen do and would like to relieve her of that responsibility as she is so busy. Don't keep on giving her chances because if she doesn't deliver on this there will be quite a few disappointed hens. And it's awful to have to keep chasing people to get things done. Whether she chooses to come to the hen do, or even to the wedding is then entirely her own decision and you are not relying on her.

I had a really low-key wedding, just 12 members of our immediate family there. I sorted out my own hen do, it's not really a big deal. The same people will be there - regardless of who invites them.
I think sometimes people can get a bit caught up in all the planning, when really none of that's very important.
Yes, it would be lovely to have a MOH/bridesmaid who is as enthused about your wedding as you are. But this friend must have a fair bit going on in her life if she managed to talk about herself for nearly 2 hours straight!
Maybe you should adjust your expectations a bit?
I also think that it's ok to go into planning your wedding thinking 'I'm not going to be like other brides, I'm going to be really laid back and relaxed' and then realise that actually, you do want the Big Day and all the associated fuss. Why not? You'll only do it once (I hope!).