To Sack my Maid of Honour?

[ViviPru]

Ok, so perhaps not that dramatic, but I'm considering relieving my friend of some of her 'duties' for our wedding.

We're planning a very relaxed wedding and don't have a traditional bridal party as such, but we want our close friends to feel included and valued. When we got engaged, the conversation with one of my good friends turned to what sort of role she'd like to play, between us we agreed she would organise a hen do, wear a dress (of her choosing) that was in keeping with the colour scheme (we'd always commented it was our shared favourite colour and she couldn't wait till DP and I got married one day so she could finally wear a dress she liked - been a bridesmaid loads of times and been made to wear some shockers in the past), we talked about her potentially coming down the aisle if she wanted and carrying a bouquet. Tantamount to a maid of honour role, really.

She appeared to be keen and I let her lead the conversations when it came to working out the level of involvement she'd be comfortable with.

Now I most certainly do not expect anyone other than our parents to place any great importance on our wedding, but given the role she has agreed to play, I'm finding her lack of enthusiasm and my struggle to engage her with anything wedding related is now starting to make me feel a bit . It's really come home to me this week, I'd been burying my feelings but DP's best man has been setting the wheels in motion for the stag do with such enthusiasm which has highlighted to me the stark contrast with my friend. The only things I've asked her to do about a month ago are to look at a particular website of dresses to see if there's anything she likes, and to perhaps come up with some initial thoughts about possible hen ideas.

I spoke to her this evening and after an hour and a half of her telling me about her life, I tentatively brought up the subject of dresses and she said she'd been too busy to look, then the subject drifted onto other things... I couldn't even bring myself to mention the hen do after that.

She briefly acknowledged her lack of wedding-related interest, but said she'd been really busy lately (she is busy, its true) and suggested we have another chat at the weekend. Now considering I've been trying to schedule tonights chat for over a week, this had the air of the final straw about it for me.

I think she just is too busy for the level of involvement/organisational responsibility we initially agreed. I knew she was busy when we decided it, but I thought that her enthusiasm would make up for that but it hasn't. She also lives abroad so while this shouldn't make a massive difference in this day and age, it makes quick, frequent catch-ups less feasible.

I've another very good friend who lives in the next city and I know would be amazing at organising a hen do, and would love to be asked. I'm thinking of emailing friend 1 tomorrow and gently explaining that I think it would be easier if friend 2 sets the wheels in motion with the hen do, and calls on friend 1 for a bit of support as and when? I've kind of regretted not asking friend 2 to be a bridesmaid, but I was never going to have any anyway. I know it would really mean a lot to her, so I think if I go down this route I may ask her if she'd like to wear a 'bridesmaidy' dress and lead the search for their dresses too?

What do you think, AIBU to send that email? Am I just a sap who needs to man the fuck up? I just don't want to be that bratty bride

Nah. it's totally NOT about whether I've given her a title or not. It's purely down to the fact that she is way too busy with work and travelling and her own problems to give the level of involvement I'd hoped for.

You just have to trust me on that, Lacking.

Besides, she DOES have a title ffs. She titled herself - Matron of dishonour. It's a play on words. Ha ha. I think I may have mentioned that?

You thought you'd booked in a chat about the hen do. Did you actually tell her that? Like 'I need to talk about the hen, is it ok to phone at 8 on Saturday to discuss'? Or was it 'we mentioned needing to talk about the hen a couple of weeks back so I assumed that when we phoned this weekend we would talk about it but I didn't bring it up and neither did she'?

April? You are stressing because she hasn't made plans for a hen do for a wedding in APRIL?

I can't remember the actual conversation, noble, but when the phone call was planned her words included (not verbatim) 'we need to talk about my dress don't we' and I said 'yes - and the hen do'.

but the level of involvement you hope for is so unclear

when you keeps saying you don't have/want a traditional bridal party, and don't have bridesmaids, so is she a bridesmaid or not, is she your maid of honour

can't you see how it'ld be impossible to gauge what you want and how serious you are when you ask for involvement, you cant seem to even lay out exactly what you want from your friends on here it seems to swing back and forth

I've told her exactly what I expect, I expected her to look at some dresses on a website and have a think about ideas for a hen do, then we would chat and discuss it at an agrees time. She has done neither. I'm a bit disappointed. It's as simple as that really.

How can I be clearer, Lacking? Ordain her as official "Maid Of Honour' so she can refer to the Book of Wedding Etiquette and gen up on the finer points of what she has to do and when?

But she said had been very busy and suggested another chat at the weekend.
Surely it's not a sacking offence to be a bit busy 7 months in advance when you have expressed no urgency about the situation.

Ime people don't like undefined stuff at weddings. They find it stressful. For example, my bridesmaids didn't want to choose their own dresses, they wanted me to choose them. I said I was fine, didn't mind (and I didn't) but it didn't matter, they wanted me to choose and then they were happy.

I wanted someone else to organise my hen do as well but it didn't happen. Honestly, do it yourself. Pick a date, find something you want to do and let your friend know. Shell probably be relieved :)

but if someone said they wanted that (i.e traditional wedding party stuff), then they say they aren't having a wedding party and the traditional stuff, they would sound very undecided and it would seem best to not act till they make up their mind

it's a massive contradiction

Do you have friends in common, can you imagine a conversatin where MOH says she is "sort of" your MOH then another friend says "oh really cause I spoke to her this week and she said she's not having any bridesmaids at all! "

Noble, yes, I agree it's not a sacking offence. The thread title was always meant to be a bit lighthearted anyway. I was just a bit deflated and upset last night and wanted to talk it out with people other than DP (who loves friend to bits but thinks she's totally flaky and gets annoyed that I cut her so much slack)

Handstand i agree with the need for definition. Everything else is clearly defined, like I said, the other people involved on a practical level (mainly family) have something in writing (be it an email or the slip I sent out with the save the dates mentioned above) describing what we'd like them to do. I do regret not not being more prescriptive with my friend, and realise that's my error here.

Right, then email her and say 're our impending conversation at the weekend, to make sure we get the most out of it, please by then can you have reviewed the dresses on the website and had a think about X and Y idea for the hen party. I'm going to start emailing people asking them about suitable dates. Chat to you further on Sat, but I'm keen to start the ball rolling.'

Then you can take charge during your next conversation. Be more business-like about it.

But vivipru, you said yourself that the girls are already up for doing something, and what's good for the goose etc, which makes me think they are expecting something of equal enormity and you also said you hadn't decided what you wanted, so might be swayed to please everyone else. Yes I agree it would be nice to enjoy the excitement and anticipation and you should, but just don't be made to feel that it should be as amazing as the stag is rumoured to be if it isn't what you want. I think the excitement and anticipation of the wedding itself should top the hen do.

I think lacking has a point, give people the title to match what you want of them, and you might get somewhere. It's up to you to make the decision as to how you proceed with this. Be prepared for the alleged MOH to decide she can't be arsed after all.

No that's not an issue, Lacking. Mutual friends have caught on to the Matron of Dishonour thing and think its fitting and totally get it. I've never proclaimed not to be having a traditional wedding party other than on here. I assume none of my friends know or frankly care what our plans are re bridal party.

Friend and I had a long conversation right at the start about my not particularly wanting or needing to have bridesmaids, and then about the role she could play, which started out as more of a best man equivalent (so yes, tantamount to maid of honour, I believe that actual term was mooted, soon abandoned for the 'MoD' as I've said) We talked it all through together and arrived at the situation I described in my OP. I don't think that I have been ambiguous about it with her.

nobel is right - just ask her straight out...or just do it all yourself!

As for matching the stag do, that's just nonsense. I can't see how anyone could draw that conclusion from my posts. All I said was it would be nice to enjoy the excitement and anticipation that DP is having about his stag.

That's all I meant. But I wouldn't let this all get in the way of the friendship, it does sound confusing and as if while not asking for it explicitly you're expecting her to be enthusiastic and excited and she's just not..maybe be less egocentric about the whole thing and take charge yourself - your friend isn't coming up to scratch for you in this particular instance but presumably you haven't always acted exactly as she would like all the time either!

God I'm getting confused with all these giraffes!

Yes I agree, I probably need to be more explicit.

"Friend and I had a long conversation right at the start about my not particularly wanting or needing to have bridesmaids, and then about the role she could play, which started out as more of a best man equivalent (so yes, tantamount to maid of honour, I believe that actual term was mooted, soon abandoned for the 'MoD' as I've said) We talked it all through together and arrived at the situation I described in my OP. I don't think that I have been ambiguous about it with her"

this still makes no sense, a female best man equivalent for the bride is a bridesmaid/maid of honour

you SAID you did not want or need bridesmaids. Then you sort of do agree to friend being sort of bridesmaid, then you talk about her doing bridesmaid stuff with you after you SAID you did not want or need bridesmaids, and wonder why she thougth better than getting stuck in on full blast and isn't prioritising doing bridesmaid stuff, the stuff you said you didn't want or need?

Vivipru, trust your DP's opinion of your flaky friend. Maybe she was enthusiastic to begin with but not any more. Don't put her in a position where she will let you down.

"I expected her to look at some dresses on a website and have a think about ideas for a hen do, then we would chat and discuss it at an agrees time. She has done neither. I'm a bit disappointed"

this reads like wanting bridesmaids/a bridesmaid to me

why not just say, yes I want official bridesmaids!, I want the shopping and the special involved friends to dress shop with! etc

how can you not see that the above quote is a confusing contradiction to you saying you don't want or need bridesmaids?

Lacking - I said that term MoH was mooted - What part of that makes no sense? We arrived at it together. I believe the conversation went something like:

"So you'd like to do X, Y and Z"
"Yeah, pretty much the equivalent to your DP's best man"
"So you'd be a maid of honour, to all intents and purposes"
"Don't you mean a Matron of Dishonour?!"
"Ha ha! Yes that would be more like it"
"Ok then - Matron of Dishonour it is! Fab"

Please,someone, help me out here - is it really that difficult to fathom?!

I never said I wanted the dress shopping. I just want her to have a look at a few blue dresses on a website and let me know if there's any she likes

when teamed with "I don't want or need bridesmaids".. yes it is!
If you didn't want or need bridesmaids, then her lack of enthusiasm and urgency about doing bridesmaidey stuff couldn't disappoint you could it?

Lacking you clearly have a more traditional view of weddings and bridal parties than I (or my friend) do. We are never going to see eye to eye on this are we so we ought to just agree to disagree.

"I never said I wanted the dress shopping. I just want her to have a look at a few blue dresses on a website and let me know if there's any she likes"

wow! no wonder your friend isn't living up to your expectations, they make NO SENSE! "I don't want dress shopping I just want to look at dresses with an aim to possibly buying one!"