to wonder why the hell a parent would participate in a tv show about how difficult their child is?

[icecold]

Just watching 'Lost Children' about a teenage boy, who's birth mother was a heroin addict. In 15 years he was moved 25 times. He was finally adopted, father left 2 years later.

After 9 years of struggling with his behaviour, she sent him back into care

Very very sad

Why the fuck would you make a documentary about how difficult your child wad, and advertising that you sent him back into care?

I would expect there is an element of this coldespcially if the child is adopted when they are older. The mum in the programme said that they maybe blamed each other (mother and son) for the marriage break up. It must have been an incredable strain to take on two children, the marriage broke down only 2 years after the adoption, so im sure circumstances may have effected her ability to build a relationship with the children.

maybe sometimes there is a romansaised view of a happy family unit, despite what preperations are in plcem if someone wants something so badley they may not truely be able to lookn at the problems so well. I maybe wrong with that thought though.

I thought that was interesting what Maryz said about damaged children growing up so much later...

I only watched the last half hour or so of this programme so apologies if I missed something relevant or have misunderstood something [I plan to watch it in full later].

However I thought that the boy in the programme seemed somehow much younger than his 15 biological years. He acted out and tantrummed like an out of control 3 year old [although with a layer of 'sophistication' - larger vocabulary, somewhat greater self awareness, etc].

I then thought it was interesting when I heard he was removed from birth mother at age 3 [I think that's right?]

I think this child is stuck in an arrested state of development and not having had stability or security in those early years put him at a profound disadvantage for 'growing up' emotionally.

So when the man [his mentor or SW?] was speaking with him about his attitude and behaviour towards his mother you could see that the child understood intellectually what was being said but couldn't quite make sense of it for himself. I mean if he wasn't respected or cared for in his early years he will find that concept bewildering.

I agree with an earlier poster who suggested intensive psychotherapy [for both child and adoptive parents] to give proper emotional support and a place in which to make sense of powerful and painful feelings [on both sides].

But I also agree that it won't ever happen because it will be too costly in terms of both money and time.

However it feels that young people and their adoptive families are being failed by the system and society and it is heartbreaking to imagine the levels of unhappiness suffered by both child and parents.

icecold I think some damaged children willnver thrive in a family type unit. They are unable to build the requisiste bonds and are thus faced with failure every single day of their lives.

Imagine waking up each day knowing you should feel x or y, but not being able to. And your adoptive parents desperately trying to make you feel x and y. Imagine how disappointed you would be in oyurself. How angry you would feel at yourself. And at everyone around you for expecting you top be able to do it...

It is setting these children and their adoptive parnets up to failure IMVHO.

I watched this and thought it was a very good advert for why it's wrong to tell people with infertility that they should 'just adopt' (the mum had had IVF a few times before adopting) - it gave a very realistic view of what it can be like to adopt a child from a very troubled background and how many times a child can be disrupted in a few short years.

I am afraid I wasn't much impressed with the care and support he was given in the 'school/home' setting. He seemed to have no boundaries other than 'ok, you've gone too far now so we're sending you home for a few days but then you can come back'.

I read this morning in the independent that the number of adoptions of children under 3 is rising, so from what others have posted, this sounds like a positive thing.

Incidentally, I saw a thing on TV within the last year or so where a family who had adopted a large number of children were now really struggling with number 5 or 6, a little girl. They were having family therapy, which was really helping, but the funding stopped as soon as the adoption went through.

is there more funding available for kids in foster care?

I am disgusted that people on this thread are blaming Sue, Josh obviously really struggled to relate to women, particularly mother figures! (unsurprizingly)

If you want to blame someone, blame Sue's ex, Josh's first proper "dad", Josh obviously CAN build relationships with men and had waited for a real dad all his life and then he pissed off and left Sue to it when it got a bit hard. He literally couldn't communicate with a single female on that show but talked quite normally with the men, where the fuck was Sue's ex, he could have left the home but still been involved in SOME sort of father figure way?

Remember that Sue had another child to think of and the home was becomming unsafe, what could she do?

I can see why the mother and key workers in this case wanted to show how his early years were fucked up by going back and forth too much

I watched it, and at the point where she returned him back into foster care, I turned to my dh and said "what else could she have done?".
I think I would have done the same. She had long ago given up trying to guide and discipline him, and he was ruling her home with a fist of iron, showing absolutely no respect for her, their home, or their posessions.
What a miserable existence she had with him.

LackingNameChangeInspiration i do understand but if you had two birth children and one was becoming unsafe would you put ne in care ?

It dose read a little like your not our real child so into care you go more support needs to be given to adoptive parents but i just wanted to put what it may seem like o the adoptive child

at the end it did say the adoptive mother was having contact with josh

she has not "washed her hands" of him

thekidsrulewell i am sure the weekly visit makes upfor him being outside the family unit (confused)

there are birth parents who at the end of their tether (for many different reasons) hand their children over to social services (or threaten to in order to get some adequate support). When these cases are discussed on MN they have always (in my experience) been accompanied by a great deal of sympathy and offers of support and a near total lack of judgement.

I find it disappointing that some people feel that this situation is different and that the mothers feelings for her child must somehow be lacking or different in some way to those of a birth parent.

If you're comparing birth to adoptive parents I would say she's likely to come out of the judgement looking significantly more "feeling" than the childs birth mother. However I don't know the case and didn't watch the programme - I never do, adoptive parents only come out looking good is if they are saints. I admire her courage in airing a side of adoption that the general public are rarely familiar with - when she had to know she was likely to come out of it looking like the bad guy. Brave woman.

"LackingNameChangeInspiration i do understand but if you had two birth children and one was becoming unsafe would you put ne in care ?

It dose read a little like your not our real child so into care you go more support needs to be given to adoptive parents but i just wanted to put what it may seem like o the adoptive child"

I don't see what else she could have done as ANY sort of mother

But as Josh's problems were directly as a result of his care history his individual case wouldn't really happen with a BC, however I felt watching it that Sue actually took LONGER to accept that she couldn't do anything for him BECAUSE she knew his history and had adopted him, rather than it being the other way round. IMO she took more than a birth parent might!

I think its bollocks to say that we don't give up our birth children, I know a few families who have had to remove a birth child because drug use/crime was so bad it wasn't benefiting the problem child from being there but it was seriously damaging the rest of the family

intresting thread

a few months ago there was a programe,three episodes i think that charted the work of social workers and their client's in Bristol

there were threads started on here about it,quite a few mner's thought the social workers were harsh to take some of the kids away,where else this programme and some examples from mners on this are saying the oppossitte

meaning sending a child back and forth to the birth family/relatives causes many long term effects for the child and should be dealt with earlier and get the child a permanent and settled home quicker,rather than giving birth parent countless chances

intresting hearing of adoptive parents experience

and for what its worth josh's adoptive mother was clearly upset and at the end of her tether,she also had josh's sister Demmi to care for,that lady has dedicated her life to them kids,maybe at the cost of her own marraige happiness

i cant agree she decided the care option lightly

And she never brought the daugher into it, probably deliberately to protect her and Josh's sibling relationship (what there was of it), but of course that must have been a consideration, she wasn't in a postition to be totally selfless and let her home be turned into a squat like drug den because she had another child who'ld also had a shit start to care for there

lacking I can see that my questions, may sound as if I am blaming the adoptive mother, but I really am not

and I never meant to suggest that she made her decision lightly either

The adoptive mother hadn't been made aware (at the point of adoption) of the amount of disruption that Josh had had in his early life (over 20 moves in under 6 years).

It's really hard to judge anything seen on TV as we are shown such a small, edited amount of what has gone on. But her husband had left just 2 years after Josh and his sister were adopted and Josh had become increasingly violent and verbally agressive. His adoptive mother also had his sister to care for and think of, on her own.

And yes people do sometimes put their 'real' children into care if their relationship has broken down or they can't cope with their behaviour. There was a post on MN not so long ago from a woman in similar situation, being regularly threatened by her 6ft teenage son who had behavioural difficulties. As parents we can love our children and try to do the best we can for them, but sometimes that is not enough and outside specialist help is needed because we don't have the wherewithall to cope.

but you do think that adoptive parents give up on their children more easily than birth parents do - from your own comments.

I was thinking as I watched it Iwas already feeling sorry for his future partner I cant see him being able to form a healthy relationship with women I maybe just assuming and he will mature and be ok It would be nice to see a follow up on this programme in a few years time,

I think it must have been very hard for her she must of felt like she had failed, people must of judged her and josh must of felt that because he was adopted it was easy for her to let him go

The while thing is sad i think fostering to adopt is much better lets you know what your in for before you commit and turn everyones life upside down

are all the children at this school adopted then?

frankly i find blaming the adoptive mother for josh's outcome very short-sighted

try blaming the birth mother/father and then the mis-handled care system

thats the main fault in this,the adopter had to try make good all the crap that had been inflicted on josh,pretty much impossible
for all concerned