to not want exp to take the kids on holiday abroad?

[hotsauce]

we split up 8 years ago and he has never taken them on holiday.

this summer holiday he has offered to have them one extra day, that's it. he couldn't spare anymore time off work. he then announced he was going away with his girlfriend.

I pointed out that he was a selfish knob and since then he has asked several times if the kids have passports.

I don't trust him to look after them properly abroad, he can't swim and won't get in the water, how can he supervise 4 of them?

part of me thinks he is just trying to make a grand gesture and upset me.I could never afford to take the kids abroad, but I have spent years holidaying with them in this country, why does he get to give them the holiday that I can't.

I also panic about long journeys and like us to all be together. if the plane is going to crash, I want to be on it with them.

so am I unreasonable?

I think we were able to read that the first time.

So why are people still going on as if they were 4 under 6s who need constant supervision to prevent them from drowning?

I wasn't aware that anyone was. I think the OP has mentioned that only two of the children can actually swim. I don't care what age they are. If they can't swim, then they need to be supervised in water.

An older child who can't swim isn't going to run into a pool the way a 2 yr old might! Anyone who can't swim by 8 yrs probably has a problem putting their face under water. My mother couldn't swim until she was over 50yrs - she didn't need supervising near water, in the sea or the swimming pool! She stuck to what she was happy with.

I can swim and I might be able to cope with saving someone in a swimming pool but probably not in the sea. Unless OP is a trained lifeguard it is a false sense of security to think it is OK because you can swim.

But children play around on inflatables. Which often take them out of their depth. Or they jump in without thinking. A friend saved a child in her local lido because she jumped in without thinking and was getting into serious trouble. Her mother was there as was her swimming brother and both thought there was no problem. If it wasn't for my friend being vigilant, that child would probably have drowned.

Anyway, those of you who want to be laissez-faire about your children's safety in water, go ahead. I don't think you need to berate the OP for having more concern, especially when she knows her exp would be incapable of helping if necessary.

And this isn't just about swimming or not. It's about a father who often cannot cope with his four children for a short weekend, talking about taking them abroad for, one assumes, a minimum of a week. I can perfectly understand why the OP might have some worries.

I think you have a right to say no if you're not happy about it.

If you really want to be on the aeroplane with them you could make that a condition of the trip...

These are 8 to 14 yr olds - they can go to the swimming pool in the UK on their own. I have never seen 14 yr olds in the water with mother anxiously patrolling the edge saying ' remember don't jump'! Tell them before they go not to take inflatables anywhere other than a pool with a lifeguard.
I can understand why she has worries but this is the DCs father - not her extra DC!

What help is she on the aeroplane is she supposed to make 4 journeys in case they crash without her?

I agree with ofmiceandcats.

My PIL were so unused to looking after small children that they almost killed DS1. (Allowed him to cross a busy road by himself, having left him behind when they crossed. They didn't think to hold his hand. He was just 2. A truck just managed to screech to a halt with inches to spare).

Should I have allowed them to take him on holiday just because they were his grandparents?

It is not the blood relationship that is important, but whether the person has common sense, child care skills, and experience of managing the child or children concerned.

Why the fixation on the swimming? Or coming up with imagined scenarios about which child can or can't swim? We can all be right in our answers if we make up the facts of the situation to suit them.

The exp can't cope with the children if they become difficult (and the OP has said two of them can be very challenging). I think this is her main concern. The swimming is a side issue.

hotsauce, I've only read up to page three but would just like to say yanbu based on what you've put here.

Lots of folk see "I don't want my ex to do " and knee jerk themselves into a concussion without considering that you might have a point.

YANBU to not want them to go on holiday if you don't trust your ex. But YABU to tell him he's selfish to go on holiday without them, but he can't take them with him

I think it's been overlooked when considering the reason behind OPs anxiety over the swimming, that she isn't referring to 'sensible' 8-14 yr olds but 2 of the middle kids being difficult, with one in particular prone to running off. Comparing those 2 to a cautious 50 yr old non swimmer is a bit pointless IMO. She's said herself she's dreading her own holiday with them without any help, as she knows how things escalate with the 2 most difficult kids. Clearly she knows them better than anyone here. Its not a case of only the OP knows best, but she knows how difficult they are and even she struggled with them on home turf. If she feels there would be an issue with 2, presumably pre-teens, who she struggles to deal with despite being the one doing the majority of care/parenting, then I'm inclined to accept that her worries/anxieties about a holiday abroad which most likely would involve a pool/beach etc. are well founded. Particularly if the ex here cannot swim and won't get in the water to keep an eye on the 2 who she feels would be at risk in that scenario.

As most have said, it's probably all academic anyway as I doubt the ex will actually go ahead and book the holiday.

He is the father - surely it isn't in the DCs interests to take him to court to stop a holiday? Not when they are of an age where they might go on a school trip, or scout camp with far more DCs.
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The op hasn't mentioned anything about taking her ex to court.

Children may well be more responsible if they know that the parent isn't. Anyway her best course of action is to keep quiet and it won't happen - no need to even mention passports - he will probably forget he needs tomdomit.

How is she going to stop him without?

She's said she wouldn't stop them but that she didn't want them to go. Not sure how you get from that to the op taking her ex to court

I know she doesn't want them to go! However if he wants to she can't stop him. If she has said that she wouldn't stop him then I can't think why we are arguing!

I have reread OP and her feelings are not unreasonable - unfortunately it doesn't really matter.

are you the original poster's ex partner exotic?

Erm, actually, as the primary carer, she could most certainly stop him taking them abroad and she wouldn't need a court order. But that's irrelevant as she hasn't said she wouldn't stop him, just expressed concerns about how safe her children would be (either in water or just generally) in a foreign country with a parent who struggles to deal with them in his own home for even a matter of two days.