to not want exp to take the kids on holiday abroad?

[hotsauce]

we split up 8 years ago and he has never taken them on holiday.

this summer holiday he has offered to have them one extra day, that's it. he couldn't spare anymore time off work. he then announced he was going away with his girlfriend.

I pointed out that he was a selfish knob and since then he has asked several times if the kids have passports.

I don't trust him to look after them properly abroad, he can't swim and won't get in the water, how can he supervise 4 of them?

part of me thinks he is just trying to make a grand gesture and upset me.I could never afford to take the kids abroad, but I have spent years holidaying with them in this country, why does he get to give them the holiday that I can't.

I also panic about long journeys and like us to all be together. if the plane is going to crash, I want to be on it with them.

so am I unreasonable?

I don't want to give all their ages for fear of identifying myself, but feel free to contact me if you need clarification. There are no twins or triplets if that helps.

I would have thought there's a good chance the kids might turn against you op if you are determined to stop them having fun with their dad.

If this was me as a 14 yr old (which the eldest will be by next year) I'd be fucking furious if one parent had tried to stop me doing this

Well I'm hoping my kids won't be as shallow as to hate me for trying to do the right thing.

Did you read this bit?
If exp could get his act together, I would happily let them go. I don't want them to go, not without me there as well, but I would let them go.

You say that you are peeved that he has never taken them on holiday but in your op you say 'I also panic about long journeys and like us to all be together. if the plane is going to crash, I want to be on it with them'. The two dont really go together do they?

If you cant afford to take them abroad but they can have that opportunity with their father, then they should go, and hopefully have a brilliant time. Its not about you letting them go as they are his children too - whatever you think of his contact with them so far.

The swimming thing is a red herring. There may not be a pool, perhaps there will be a childrens pool, or a shallow end he could get in with them, perhaps the partner is a good swimmer, or they could just wear armbands/rubber rings or whatever it is little ones have these days.

Re the passports, he should pay for those if he wants to take them abroad, that seems sensible to me.

I should show my hand here: my DH was banned from taking his children abroad by his XW when I met him (for no good reason that he is aware of and he is a qualified life guard by the way ). Eventually she relented, and he was allowed to take them. Since then we have had some lovely family holidays that they and we have really enjoyed. Please let them go with him.

Well - I can see the point about safety. I love DH dearly, but I had to work very hard to get him to a point where he was aware of danger with the DC, He just had had very little to do with children before he had his own. MIL was also completely hopeless, having always had a full time nanny.

Not everyone is safe to be looking after children, regardless of their relationship with said children.

What are you confused about it your first para folly?

I take them on the long journeys, by car, in the country. When I say I want us to be together, I mean me and the kids, not him. I have a fear of planes crashing, if my kids were going on one, I'd like to be on it with them.

I have never banned exp from taking them anywhere, but he has chosen not to bother holidaying with them for the past 8 years.

Because you say you are cross that he hasnt taken them away but that you want to be with them if they go on a long journey. They will be going on a long journey without you if he takes them away so you want get what you want.

Never mind that now though. Please consider my last paragraph carefully. The only people who suffered because of his XWs ban on holidays abroad were the children. They would have loved to have gone away with him, but were prevented by their mother. That is really sad.

'wont get what you want not 'want get what you want'

Oh, I see what you mean. I would worry about a car journey as well but my head says in a car you stand in a chance, on a plane you don't.

Can I repost this, again.
If exp could get his act together, I would happily let them go. I don't want them to go, not without me there as well, but I would let them go.

It's not about the kids being 'shallow' OP. it's about the fact that he's their dad, they love him as much as they love you , and may well view this as his attempt to do the right thing and spend some proper time with them having fun.

You are looking at this totally from your perspective. The children will have their own, and thats entirely how it should be. You and the father has split up, not them and their father.

This is a classic situation where the poor children are caught in the middle. I just think that for the teenager at least, and perhaps the younger ones, they aren't going to meekly accept you controlling what they do with their dad. A holiday abroad is a really exciting thing for that age group.. They haven't had one before .. Do you really think they'll just meekly accept being told they can't go because you don't want them to?

Just smile sweetly, thank him for his generosity, and tell him he will need to start sorting out the passports now.

Then ask him how much the flights and accommodation will cost, whilst making it clear that you cannot afford to contribute anything at all.

Mention that they may need suitable clothing depending on the destination.

It is entirely reasonable to point out that if there is going to be swimming, he needs to ensure that there will be lifeguards, as he cannot swim.

Yes you're right, they would probably resent me. And I think I have said this several times now, I would probably let them go, providing exp can reassure me he will look after them properly, but I don't want them to.

I would be scared and worried the whole time they were gone and I would hate it, but i could do it if I had to.

Why are people being so hard on the OP? It makes me laugh a bit the way some people will deliberately take the opposing pov just for the sake of it. The OP is being quite honest, she has not said they can't go, she's just said she wouldn't like it.

Which I think is fair enough???

They arent yours to let go. They are children of two parents and if one parent wants to do something lovely with them, that parent shouldnt need permission from the other one (aside from doing so within whatever contact arrangements are agreed obviously). That seems a really basic point you are missing.

Or perhaps people have seen the other side of this situation squeegle and are offering an alternative view rather than just saying something for the sake of it

Respect to you for that last post hotsauce. It's entirely reasonable that he steps up between now and the holiday- eg doing extra visits and maybe day or weekend trips, so that he's more familiar with the idea of taking them away.

And then let them go and whatever your feelings, HIDE them from the kids. They mustn't see that you are unhappy about it- it will diminish their pleasure in it.

In fact, your best bet would be to arrange your own little holiday at the same time. Doesn't need to be expensive, how about going to stay with a friiend; having some pampering and girlie time? That way you won't be dwelling on them and the irrational stuff like the plane

I think those are the rules of aibu aren't they squeegle? Be really aggressive and go in all guns blazing whether it warrants it or not?

I am absolutely certain if I had posted this in a different way, I would have got a different response.

I should have come on and started a thread saying that my exp doesn't want the kids these summer holidays because he can't spare the time off work, he is going on holiday with his girlfriend though. Everyone would have slagged him off and it would have been completely different.

Because I called him on his shitty behaviour and he has come back with an offer of a great holiday next year, he is the hero and I am the evil, jealous bitter ex partner.

I think YABVU, I think that you are preventing them going because of your fears. I understand the fear of flying I too am a very anxious flyer but I know that logically I am much more likely to die in a car. I don't let my fear of flying stop me flying and I would never let it stop my kids doing something. What are you going to do in 5 years if your oldest takes a year out and is fying around south amaerica in old dodgy planes? stop them going?

I think you need to teach your kids how to swim, there is a much higher chance that a non swimmer will die because of drowning at the local park/beach/friends swimming pool rather than a plane crash.

Why oh why would I want to take my blond haired, blue eyed beauty out to a country where I would have no rights as a woman or a mother? on a saide note the person who said this on the first page, why would it matter if your child was beutiful with ight hair and eyes? Would you have more rights with a dark or ugly child not that any children are ugly?

If I were you OP I would sit down and write a list of everything that bothers you about the holiday, be brutally honest with yourself and include anything that stems from resentment or anger etc.

Divide it into two separate lists, one containing legitimate worries or obstacles (cost of passports, swimming etc) and the other containing irrational fears or feelings (flying issue, resentment that he can give DC a holiday you can't).

Look at the second list, on it should be everything you can't change and couldn't whether you were there or not. Ask yourself if any of these thoughts or feelings justify denying your DC what could be a lovely holiday that might result in them having a better relationship with their father (and a father who better understands how much work it takes to care for 3 DC 24/7). Acknowledge your feelings, they're not unreasonable. Irrational maybe, but perfectly natural. We are hard wired to be protective, and yes sometimes territorial over our DC. So shoot us eh! But nothing on that list should be a legitimate obstacle, so bin it. Burn it, rip it, just do away with it. The feelings are still there, but they're your problems not your DC's so let them be until your DC are safely away and then yes, feel them in all their irrational glory.

Now back to the first list, the things that are real and reasonable and can be changed. Share that list with your ex, explain why each one is a concern and discuss together how you both can resolve them. An equal parent will be happy to take equal responsibility for genuine issues.

Don't set conditions or lay down rules as such. Saying "I'll only let them go if you do xyz" isn't going to elicit a cooperative response. Saying "I'd feel much more comfortable if you could reassure me that if you and GF fancy a drink in the evening you would use a babysitting service and not risk leaving DC in the hotel room alone" for example just opens a discussion about it. He probably won't even have thought about some of your worries and might welcome your input instead of him trying to tackle issues alone as they come up by surprise!

That's if it even happens OP, it sounds quite ambiguous at the moment anyway just asking if they have passports. Ask him outright what he's planning, if anything and and start talking sooner rather than later instead of you mulling over and worrying about what may or may not happen in a years time.

Rambled a bit sorry!

Folly, like I said earlier if he was a hands on, totally involved dad who wanted to spend more time with his kids, everything you said would be true. Sadly he isn't like that, he hides behind work to shirk his responsibilities, he always has, that's why I left him. He picks and chooses the bits of parenting he likes, he does the bare minimum and very little else. He is not the great man you seem to think he is.

Yes, those are the rules of AIBU indeed. It's not a fight club we all know it is really

Thank you MissP, that's helpful.

Dd1 is actually going abroad with the school twice next year, exp is paying for it. I am already worrying about it, but I haven't stopped her going. I'm worried about coach travel abroad, breaking limbs ski ing etc and all sorts of other hideous scenarios, but she is going.

Big smile "Wonderful, I've never been able to afford to go abroad since we split, we've always holidayed in the Uk because of the cost. Now you're going to have them for a couple of weeks I'll be able to get away myself".
Start talking about passports, food preferences, suncream etc. Let him get on with it, and get yourself some quality time booked in with friends.

This is an opportunity all round, you just need to look at it the right way.

Really hotsauce, there is no need to convince us of the detail about your ex. Your relationship with him broke down. Your childrens hasn't. They deserve and are entitled to have a relationship with him which is unfettered by the baggage you feel about him being not hands on enough etc. He may well have his failings- I don't doubt it- but you need to separate that from the relationship his kids have with him. You are blurring the lines between how you feel as his ex wife, and how the children should feel. By all means feel irritated by him and feel annoyed that he can offer them a holiday which you can't but don't show it. Your children will end up resenting that you are trying to control their relationship with him

Part of the issue is that he does very little of the day-to-day childcare, won't take any time off to take them on holiday usually, leaves everything to the resident parent and then gets to do the grand gesture of a holiday abroad. So the OP has to deal with 4 children every day (with all the stress that that brings), manages to do holidays in this country each year when their dad does nothing and then sees him whisk them of on a holiday abroad where she has concerns about his ability to keep them safe. I can see why she is worried. There may be an element of jealousy that he can afford to do this when she can't, but it doesn't mean that the rest of her concerns aren't valid.