To not to want to go out with my SIL and nephew

[GimmieChocolate]

Going to be a long one so get your cuppas and hobnobs ready!

My SIL has a 4 year old son who's quite, um, lively. Whenever they come to our house he has to be centre of attention, running around, jumping up and down, generally being very annoying. He interrupts, thinks it's acceptable to demand things etc... He's also the same when out.

This week I met them in town with my 10 week old DD and we went for lunch. Nephew was not only child in restaurant of his kind of age but he was the only one running up and down not sitting in his seat, being loud. We were talking about my DD and he kept saying "look at me, look at me, look what im doing, look at me" as for all of a minute it wasnt about him. He was given his options for lunch which when arrived he had cut into small pieces for him which he then ate with his fingers!! At 4!! There was a pot of mayonnaise put on the table which he just put his hand into, licked and then did same again so no one else could then really have any, and then went to touch my DD. I very quickly stopped him as yes ok I might be a bit pfb, but i didn't want Germy, grubby, sticky mayonnaise hands on my DD! He was then having his drink and flicking the straw around so I kept getting bits of juice flicked at me. I did say to him "you've just flicked your drink on me" and he just carried on. To be honest I did not enjoy the whole lunch. And by the way, the whole eating with hands thing is not unusual, I've never seen him use cutlery.

Fast forward to walking around town, I wanted to get DD a few bits of clothes and when I'd paid for them he just turned and said " can you buy me a present now" I was completely shocked that he just came out with it and said "it's not polite to ask for things" to which he replied "don't be silly yes it is so can you buy me a present" I obviously didn't buy him anything but he went on and on about it until he got into a strop!

We then all went into another shop where SIL got him a paddling pool but that wasn't good enough, no, he had a full on tantrum as she wouldn't buy him any other toys from in there. I was mortifiyingly embarrassed to be seen with them if I'm honest.

She wants to meet up regularly so she can see my DD, her niece, but I really do not want to be out with her DS. That behaviour is quite normal for him and I find it embarrassing and just quite unacceptable for a child to behave. If it was a one off I could understand, but he's like it every time I've seen him!

Am I really BU that I don't want to be out with him?

I think everyone here agrees that his behaviour was not good.

But when you make remarks like "....as for all of a minute it wasn't about him" or "....oh no, that wasn't good enough for him" you're actually making remarks about his personality, not his behaviour.

If you think that's an OK way to regard your very young nephew, then, yes, I am happy to concede that we see things very differently. Thank goodness.

I'm with you crikey

OP YANBU.
If children aren't told from an early age what is good behaviour they will never learn. Am sick of parents not disciplining their kids and then dumping them at school expecting the teacher to deal with it.
When DD was 4 we used time out to deal with undesirable behaviour. Perhaps SIL should do the same!
Hate whiny kids who expect gifts all the time. And running round restaurant, spitting food and drink is not on. At school a teacher would not put up with it.
And so what if OP does not like the child?? If child continues to behave like this, he won't be asked on playdates etc.
So OP, YANBU!

I took the "....as for all of a minute it wasn't about him" to be a way to describe to someone, who hadn't been there, that he had had attention but wasn't able to take a lack of it for a very small amount of time.

As opposed to it being a diatribe on a personality who wants it to be all about them. To me it seemed descriptive of the situ more than a deep seated critique of his personality itself IYSWIM.

I have a 3 year old who would have behaved exactly the same way in those circumstances. It's why I never go shopping with him (save the odd supermarket trip when he can be bribery with food and a go on a ride-on at the end) and only lunch in child-tolerant places.
Hopefully by 6 or 7 I will be more able to rely on his behaviour to tolerate the odd day of more adult oriented strips.
As for "it not being about him". A 10 week old is very dull to a 4 year old, doesn't play or really do anything. Not surprised he didn't want to sit quietly while you -gushed over pfb-- talked

Hmmm...this reminds me of a very uptight pre school worker I once knew.
She was all over my ds1 - no behaviour issues I hasten to add, but he struggled with some self care as he has some sn - and she was always complaining...ds1 can't do this, needs help doing at...etc etc.
I had enoh one day and told her in no uncertain terms that as we were told at birth he might be blind and deaf and that he had possible CP i thought he was doing just fine.
That shut her up. :)
A couple of years later I was helping out in a school trip (ds1 was in yearb1 by this point and it was becoming clear he was dyspraxia ans severely dyslexic) and I was asking how her daughter was getting on in pre school.
Her reply?
"well, they expect far too much of them at such a young age"
I was actually speechless :)

Sorry for typos...on iPad

Please revisit this thread when your dd is 3/4.
By then you may have realised that not all children respond to the naughty step/time outs/telling off....all children are different.
I have 2 ds's.
Ds1 has never had a tantrum.
Ds2 on the other hand.....:)
Parented exactly the same way by the same parents.
They are just different people and are treated as such.
I feel quite sorry for your sil tbh.
You sound very judged and hard to be around tbh.

YANBU

My cousin was awful at that age, his parents didn't seem to believe in discipline.

I think they thought mine were too strict, ie DSIS and I got shouted at and smacked if we were naughty.

I was 10 years older and I watched in huge amusement the change when his younger sister came along.

Suddenly, they realised that two out of control DCs was more than they could cope with and discipline was instilled.

Dear cousin is now the nicest man your ever likely to meet, DD2 was his bridesmaid recently.

Hopefully the OPs DN will calm down or be calmed down by school, or parents seeing the light too.

Until then family events can be very wearing.

Has no one ever seen a child behaving badly/throwing a tantrum and thought "I'm glad that's not me"? Really?

I've already said I think personal attacks/abuse are a bit uncalled for so I ask nicely that you please don't persist with them. I've said nothing bad about you. Thank you.

Oh and before I get flamed for shouting and smacking this was the late 1970's - positive parenting, the naughty steep and time out weren't invented.
Well certainly not in Yorkshire!

I'm with the OP. I have two four year old nephews.

SIL (my DH's sister) 's son is perfectly capable of sitting nicely for a meal then putting up with some shopping. Yes he wants attention but it's not constant and he's very good at getting on with colouring/play doh etc.

DB's son is..erm..lively He's badly behaved because he's never disciplined by his parents, and I hate going places with him. I know it's his behavilur, not him, that I dislike, but the tantrums and shouting and hitting and snatching are very waring.

The difference between these two boys are their upbringing. SIL is firm, expects goid behaviour, but is warm and affectionate. DB and SIL are laid back and don't get worried about bad behaviour because apparently his teachers will tell him off!

Admittedly I don't have a four year old (I have a 2.6 year old and a 4 month old baby) but even the toddler can sit for a meal as long as I have plenty of 'props'!

OP, you expect too much from a 4 year old. And, by the looks of it, he's picked up on your dislike for him and is pushing the boundaries a bit to see your reaction.

Even the best behaved children misbehave some of the time. Next time choose something more child-friendly, like the park!

Bacon if you read pp you will see she was asleep and getting no attention and there was only the briefest of talking about her, initiated by SIL. 99% of the time the attention was on him.

If you're saying that your SIL said/ did nothing to try and make him behave, eg "please don't flick your straw like that, you're getting drink over auntie x", then you're not being u BUT i do agree with all the posters who've said children are individuals and have strong personalities if their own (especially at that age!) my 2.5 yo is capable of being quite naughty but it's not for want of clear boundaries and discipline. When she wants to be, she's an angel which shows that she does understand right from wrong. Toddlers are unable to control their emotions and the smallest thing will tip them over the edge. In your case boredom; in my dd's case it's usually hunger or tiredness (the girl eats like a horse and is dropping her afternoon nap).

Ps I always have snacks, toys and a colouring book to hand so if she had nothing to keep him happy then that was u of her.

YANBU to highly irritated by your nephew's behaviour. However, there will come a time when your DD, no matter how you bring her up, will behave so badly you will want the ground to open up and swallow you!

I was extremely judgey of other peoples' children when my DD (pfb) was small. I was adamant she would never, ever behave like a brat, I simply wouldn't allow her to Then at around 15 months old she had her first tantrum. In public. It was epic. All because her last piece of yorkshire pudding fell on the floor and I wouldnt allow her to eat it anyway. I nearly combusted with shame.

Basically, be careful how judgey you get. The tables can be turned before you know it...

OP, I think you should put mayo-gate and this thread down to experience, let the thread go (don't take it personally, none of us know you) and wait a while before you arrange another trip with SIL.

Gimme, I see children having trantrums all the time, yes I think thank god thats not me...

At least not at this moment in this place.

I agree his behaviour is not appropriate, you just sound quite judgy about it, a newborn is very different from a 4 yo. If my DN had flicked me with a straw, I would have asked him to stop or distracted him, TBH his mum would have stepped in before then. I may have missed it but did you SIL pull him up on his behaviour at all.

You still haven't answered whether or not you are going to see your DN in the future.

OP YADNBU !

Having said that its hardly the childs fault if his parents dont set boundaries for his behaviour.
Its perfectly reasonable to go out for lunch and for a 4 year old to need help with cutting food,cutlery,drink etc .
It doesnt sound as if your SIL engages with him much and this is the key issue.

Gimme I frequently think "thank God that's not me". I don't think "that will never be me because I am a better parent than that."

The criticism you have encountered on tis thread is not about you thinking four year olds shouldn't flick drinks. It is about the inappropriate way you talk about a small child, and your ridiculous assertions about what your baby will be doing in four years time.

But I am actually worried that you are knocking yourself sideways to not allow your baby to cry in public. Too much pressure to be putting on yourself. Have you been stuck in a traffic jam yet??

Gimmie, I wasn't expecting her to be doing a song & dance routine?!

Haven't read the whole thread but seems as though you have had mixed response.

My advice, if it brothers you, don't arrange to meet in places where his behaviour will embarrass/annoy you. If rain (or whatever) scuppers more child-friendly plans then reschedule.

If he's still the same in a few years then I'll agree YANBU...

Hi, I'm a lurker on this forum and finally read something I have to answer.

You have pretty much described my 5yo son. I have brought him up expecting good behaviour, set boundaries, done several parenting courses, gone through CAF, CAMS and driven to the point of jumping off of a cliff by his behaviour. There's no SN. He's just very willful, determined and though knows how to behave well, doesn't do so in these situations because he wants to be controlling and show me up.

I think some children are just this high spirited, and avoiding places like shops and cafes is best so you can take away triggers for bad behaviour.

I know I am being judged all the time by other parents. I can hear them hoiking up their pants.

If she's already had several hours that day of him being like that, perhaps all she wanted was ten minutes of normality with you where she didn't have to listen to the sound of her own voice saying the same thing for the millionth time.

HTH.

Clem it's not that I won't allow it I just try to avoid it. I don't want the whole "can she not shut that baby up" looks/comments. I was apologising profusely to the people at baby clinic the other week when DD screamed her little head off when I got her weighed! I am quite an anxious and self critical person and I feel like people think I'm a bad parent if she's crying. Maybe I'm projecting my own insecurities about wanting to be seen as a good parent? I even apologised to my DH when she was having a fuss at 6:30 this morning! Of course he told me don't be silly!

Exactly that, why we you apologising for her crying? You are no doubt doing the very best you can and you sound like you love her very much. Most of what has been written here is in the spirit of helping you to understand that you can still be a good parent AND have a child who plays up so perhaps you should just be kinder to yourself.

You haven't said how your SIL disciplines him?