To not to want to go out with my SIL and nephew

[GimmieChocolate]

Going to be a long one so get your cuppas and hobnobs ready!

My SIL has a 4 year old son who's quite, um, lively. Whenever they come to our house he has to be centre of attention, running around, jumping up and down, generally being very annoying. He interrupts, thinks it's acceptable to demand things etc... He's also the same when out.

This week I met them in town with my 10 week old DD and we went for lunch. Nephew was not only child in restaurant of his kind of age but he was the only one running up and down not sitting in his seat, being loud. We were talking about my DD and he kept saying "look at me, look at me, look what im doing, look at me" as for all of a minute it wasnt about him. He was given his options for lunch which when arrived he had cut into small pieces for him which he then ate with his fingers!! At 4!! There was a pot of mayonnaise put on the table which he just put his hand into, licked and then did same again so no one else could then really have any, and then went to touch my DD. I very quickly stopped him as yes ok I might be a bit pfb, but i didn't want Germy, grubby, sticky mayonnaise hands on my DD! He was then having his drink and flicking the straw around so I kept getting bits of juice flicked at me. I did say to him "you've just flicked your drink on me" and he just carried on. To be honest I did not enjoy the whole lunch. And by the way, the whole eating with hands thing is not unusual, I've never seen him use cutlery.

Fast forward to walking around town, I wanted to get DD a few bits of clothes and when I'd paid for them he just turned and said " can you buy me a present now" I was completely shocked that he just came out with it and said "it's not polite to ask for things" to which he replied "don't be silly yes it is so can you buy me a present" I obviously didn't buy him anything but he went on and on about it until he got into a strop!

We then all went into another shop where SIL got him a paddling pool but that wasn't good enough, no, he had a full on tantrum as she wouldn't buy him any other toys from in there. I was mortifiyingly embarrassed to be seen with them if I'm honest.

She wants to meet up regularly so she can see my DD, her niece, but I really do not want to be out with her DS. That behaviour is quite normal for him and I find it embarrassing and just quite unacceptable for a child to behave. If it was a one off I could understand, but he's like it every time I've seen him!

Am I really BU that I don't want to be out with him?

I was told off there and then for not saying 'excuse me please mummy' and guess what, I used that instead of interrupting.

Haven't read the entire thread but that ^^ hahahshahahahahaha gasp, get breath chortle snigger hhhhhaaaaaaaaa.

Oh, god sorry pant. Ahem where was I, oh yes DD1 is2.8 very well behaved, very polite, advanced language skills etcetc but she's a kid, do you think that's all it takes, mummy's word?? I need to tell, warn, follow through numerous times until it sinks in and then she'll still have the occasional meltdown.

If your sil made no attempts to curtail him fine but please please readjust your expectations or you are in for a rough road and if there is anything liable to goad kids on more its a parents frustration.

Grandpa I wouldnt leave I would just tell my DC to stop flicking their drinks or I would take it away .
Mind you I was also steely when faced with tantrums and far more stubborn than my DC

"would think something along the lines of "you do not flick drinks, please sit and drink nicely or if it then continued said action would be carried out."

As someone who resorts to this kind of approach on my bad days, I can tell you that repeatedly threatening/bribing your children to behave well is demoralising and largely ineffective.

Evev if you carry through the threats, it still makes you look weak to be issuing them.

It's why you should never shout as a teacher - it makes you look weak. Or, more accurately, it draws attention to your fallibility.

There are parents whose children behave well because they have been disciplined well, but they are not the ones who think it's about "being tough" and "not putting up with it".

They are the clever, creative, resourceful ones that those of us less gifted watch and learn from.

Parents like Pagwatch and MrsDeVere on MN. There are others too.

If people had seen four year old DS and I shopping together this afternoon there would be varying opinions of him depending on the time when you saw us. He swung between occasionally angelic and very cute, alright, mildly irritating and at times downright demonic. Sadly, sometimes to an outsider his behaviour was considered amusing when it was very difficult for me to manage but the attention only encouraged him. It is really frustrating but what I am finding hard is setting firm boundaries when DS seems to think that a cute smile will let him get away with whatever he likes. I want to encourage him to engage with people, be sociable etc BUT at the same time I do expect as a 4 year old starting school in September to have basic good manners and for every activity not to be wholly centred around his wishes and demands. I do try to ensure that we do plenty of activities for his pleasure ( eg, this morning had been spent in the park running around with his friends) but I do think that weekends should also be about what I need to do as well.

Please can people refrain from personal nasty attacking comments. There is no need for them and I've not said a bad word about any of you.

I have an opinion and respect others even though it appears we don't all agree. I'm not making comments on your children and parenting as I don't know you so I do not feel its possible for people to make comments on mine as you don't know me.

Thank you

I think OP is being unfairly bashed on this thread . There is nothing wrong with wanting your Dc to grow up with boundaries.
Mine had firm boundaries,consequences and have grown up to be lovely teenagers.No threats/bribery or pleading.
OP perhaps your concerns should be directed to your SIL/BIL - its not really a little boys fault his parents are poor parents.
Good luck

OP you really do need to grow a thicker skin. If you are going to ask if you are being unreasonable, expect to be told are.

I have not "personally attacked" you in any way. I have simply commented on the way your posts have come across to me. You are more than welcome to ignore every word, but disagreeing is very different from attacking.

You have posted all the way through as if you know everything there is to know about parenting. That you will instantly know exactly how to deal with every bad behaviour the moment it arrives.

You have appeared, to me at least, very dismissive of anyone who has tried, however gently, to tell you that will not be the case. The majority of posters have a hell of a lot of experience, telling them you know better is going to get people's backs up.

I'm sorry if you've taken offence but helping someone doesn't mean telling them what they want to hear. Believe it or not harsh advice can still be good advice.

Sorry, I've looked after several 4-year-old boys in my time and it's quite possible for them to behave in public. It's called discipline. He's not getting any. YANBU.

Peshwari the voice of reason
Dont tell anyone though its not cool !

I've said what I feel is good/bad behaviour and what I would expect. I've never told anyone that their patenting is wrong. Calling someone condescending, making sarcastic comments like you think you've got it all sussed, is personal in my opinion. It's not in yours. Those are our individual opinions and neither are wrong to us.

I'm more then capable of taking harsh advice, but to have several people say I'm nasty, hate my nephew etc because I dared to explain his behaviour by actually describing it, is quite hurtful so is only natural to defend yourself.

I think this thread has got completely out of hand. All I did was describe what I felt was bad behaviour and it turned into a bit of a witch hunt. I have said that I know children push boundaries and I expect trying moments from my daughter. I'm being portrayed as an evil child hating bitch though by saying I expect good manners and will do my very upmost to instill them in my daughter.

Please can I ask people look at the original point. I said I thought he was being annoying and I was embarrassed by some of his behaviour. Have parents never found a child annoying at times? Or been embarrassed by their behaviour? Be it theirs or someone else's?

Let's play nice people!

Ok then, YABU.

(And I wasn't being sarcastic, I don't do pa. Your posts really do come across like you think you have it all sussed, and your tone has seemed very condescending as many other posters have also commented.)

You want to go back to your origial post well this is from your original post:

"My SIL has a 4 year old son who's quite, um, lively. Whenever they come to our house he has to be centre of attention, running around, jumping up and down, generally being very annoying. He interrupts, thinks it's acceptable to demand things etc... He's also the same when out."

This does not to me sound like the opinion of someone who understands that children can be a handful at times. It sounds like the opinion of someone who doesn't have a clue about kids. He's four for goodness sake and most 4 yr olds are demanding and interrupt adult conversations. And whatever you say there doesn't seem to be much affection or warmth in any of your posts.

YABU - I have 3 nephews, all boys, all a bit, um, boisterous. A lot if their behaviour IS probably down to their parenting, but I don't judge my DSis because I know how incredibly difficult her life is and how their horrible bastard of a father, uses them as a weapon and undermines my DSis.

Being in their company IS difficult, BUT they're my nephews and I love them and my DSis, so I put up with it to maintain our relationships.

I have read a lot about how children should be taught that life dies not revolve around them. IMO another important lesson for EVERYBODY is that in life you will come across difficult people and sometimes you just have to get on with it.

My SIL is/was always very judgemental about other people's parenting. It just isn't helpful especially as she was never giving any real insight having only experienced the baby years herself.

OP, I hope you find a way to be supportive of your SIL so that you can maintain a relationship with your DC's extended family.

I admitted previously that my phrasing in OP may of given wrong impression. I'm being shot down for saying I'm not taking on board people's opinions and that i'm not prepared to accept if I'm wrong however I have on some points!

Thank you everyone for your BU/NBU opinions and would once again like to say I've not said anything horrible about other posters even when I've not agreed with them. Not everybody likes everybody, the world would be a boring place if we did, but please respect the opinions of others.

I find it bizarre that you apologised to your husband when your baby was crying at 6.30am!

I really think ŷou need to learn to relax in general otherwise your life is going to be ten times harder than it needs to be in future.

OP, I think your DN was a brat, he was being a PITA and you're right to refrain from seeing him until he is better behaved.

Oh, and I have no children or any intention to have them, so I will never be proved wrong... MOHAHAHAHAHAW!

There. I hope now all the bile is deflected from the OP towards me and she can move on. It seems you just can't have a moan these days...

OP YANBU - astonished at the amount of people attacking you. I loathe being in cafes/restaurants with badly behaved children. Their idiotic parents appear to be oblivious to the fact that other diners might not be interested in their darlings and just want to have their meal in peace (what a crime).

There's a difference between a child acting up a bit because they are young and one that is totally undisciplined and a complete pain to be around.

I would suggest this child is attention seeking because he is not getting enough from his parent who can't even be bothered to teach him basic social skills - that's supposed to be part of the job surely!

YABU. But you should probably be forgiven as you've just had your first baby and no other child can possibly be as perfect.

I look forward to your posts about your second (boy) child when he is 4.

I just don't think it's all parenting...have 3 dc myself with what might be termed mixed results so far .
Ds1 - hard work as a baby, nightmare 2-4 year old, very late speaking, very active, lots of odd repetitive behaviours. Used to be asked whether we had had him "assessed". Now 7 he's bright, fun, a bit of a tendency to silliness but no problems whatsoever at school or when out.
Ds2 - lovely baby, sweet little 2 year old, stubborn beyond belief since 3, still very very hard to get to behave if in a mood...
DD - currently delightfully well behaved but hasn't hit 2 yet.
I'm hoping ds2 is still on his way through the threenager phase although as he's now 5 I may be being over optimistic.
I don't think my parenting has been that different for each child it's just that it is a lot easier to convince ds1 than ds2 that life is better when following the majority of my plans/rules etc. Although living with ds2 has at least taught me the importance of picking my battles...
some kids really are hard work to get to be well behaved. Some days are just bad days.
Having said that, I'm not denying the importance of consistent parenting. If ds2 flicked his drink at me he would get 1 warning then have it removed.

You are asking that we respect people's opinions. But you aren't even acknowledging those who post contrary opinions! So pot kettle black??

Well put drcrab the op doesn't want opinions as to whether she's being reasonable or not as she's pointedly ignored every single opinion that doesn't agree with her. I don't know why she posted on AIbu as she's adamant that she isn't - I think she expected everyone to agree with her when in fact the majority of people think she's being too judgmental on a bored 4 year old.

Yabu I have 2 dd's, dd1 has always behaved impeccably does what she is asked, but sometimes still likes to eat with her fingers and gets corrected on this each time she is 7,advanced at school, well mannered in most areas. Dd2 is another story despite her parenting being exactly the same she is 3.5 and very lively, a nightmare at meal times sometimes she just won't eat anything I have been in tears over this many a time (not in front of her) I think in your shoes I would have judged me. I think what I am trying to say is yanbu with regards to your sil not pulling your nephew up on his behaviour but please don't judge you can't know how hard it is sometimes.

Forgot to add I feel myself and dh are quite strict parents but this obviously is not working with dd2 at times.

Without meaning to sound rude, the boy is only 4. Wait until your pfb turns 4, she may not be the best behaved on shopping trips as going shopping is very boring for young children.
Whilst you have a small baby, she can be restrained in a pram and made quiet with a bottle but you cannot control a 4 yo in such a way. Its typical 4yo behahiour being bored tbh.

I think you should carry on with the shopping trips as he is your nephew after all and it would be a shame for you to part on bad terms.