To not to want to go out with my SIL and nephew

[GimmieChocolate]

Going to be a long one so get your cuppas and hobnobs ready!

My SIL has a 4 year old son who's quite, um, lively. Whenever they come to our house he has to be centre of attention, running around, jumping up and down, generally being very annoying. He interrupts, thinks it's acceptable to demand things etc... He's also the same when out.

This week I met them in town with my 10 week old DD and we went for lunch. Nephew was not only child in restaurant of his kind of age but he was the only one running up and down not sitting in his seat, being loud. We were talking about my DD and he kept saying "look at me, look at me, look what im doing, look at me" as for all of a minute it wasnt about him. He was given his options for lunch which when arrived he had cut into small pieces for him which he then ate with his fingers!! At 4!! There was a pot of mayonnaise put on the table which he just put his hand into, licked and then did same again so no one else could then really have any, and then went to touch my DD. I very quickly stopped him as yes ok I might be a bit pfb, but i didn't want Germy, grubby, sticky mayonnaise hands on my DD! He was then having his drink and flicking the straw around so I kept getting bits of juice flicked at me. I did say to him "you've just flicked your drink on me" and he just carried on. To be honest I did not enjoy the whole lunch. And by the way, the whole eating with hands thing is not unusual, I've never seen him use cutlery.

Fast forward to walking around town, I wanted to get DD a few bits of clothes and when I'd paid for them he just turned and said " can you buy me a present now" I was completely shocked that he just came out with it and said "it's not polite to ask for things" to which he replied "don't be silly yes it is so can you buy me a present" I obviously didn't buy him anything but he went on and on about it until he got into a strop!

We then all went into another shop where SIL got him a paddling pool but that wasn't good enough, no, he had a full on tantrum as she wouldn't buy him any other toys from in there. I was mortifiyingly embarrassed to be seen with them if I'm honest.

She wants to meet up regularly so she can see my DD, her niece, but I really do not want to be out with her DS. That behaviour is quite normal for him and I find it embarrassing and just quite unacceptable for a child to behave. If it was a one off I could understand, but he's like it every time I've seen him!

Am I really BU that I don't want to be out with him?

I have more then once said I fully respect other people opinions. Where have I said otherwise? Some people think I was BU, some thought I was NBU. I respect the OPINION of each one of them whether it was the same as mine or not.

What I'm finding difficult to understand is being had a go at for not changing my mind on every single point. Are you going to change your mind on every single point? Thought not! How then does that make other posters behaviour any different? But no, I'm still the evil bitch. I'm finding this whole pick on the OP scenanrio just because we don't agree thing quite upsetting. There are nicer ways to say that we don't agree.

I've admitted and agreed to points that when bought to my attention I thought people did have a good point i.e. using wrong phrasing that can be seen as uncaring, as well as very openly saying that I might be projecting my own self critical and anxiousness about been seen as a good parent. If that's not being prepared to admit being wrong/too high expectations then I don't know what else I can do?

OP, I and I'm sure that many people on here don't think you are an evil bitch, far from it. You have a 10 week old and sound a loving and attentive mum.

I tihnk that you are reading too much into the posts, AIBU can be a bit of a bun fight at times, although I don't think this thread is that bad. Maybe step away from it and post in other areas for a while.

Please keep seeing your DN, you sound from later posts as though you have a good relationship with him and as your DC grows up they may develop a good friendship. I love watching all my DNs and chidlren playing together.

OP I don't think YABU.

The low level of expectation for what is normal behaviour for a 4 yr old is very depressing.

And since when has 'spoil' stopped being a pejorative term? (The idea that of course grannies should be allowed to spoil their gcs.)

'Only 4' - many 4 yr olds are now at school, and my heart goes out to the poor souls who have to teach them to sit down, not interrupt and eat with a knife and fork.

op, I'm with you, I don't think children should ever behave like this, its ridiculous and shows bad parenting

I have a teenager and a pre teen and I'm thinking of posting on the teenagers board about how I know they'll never come home drunk, always study well at school and never have unsuitable girlfriends, because I said so

what replies do you think I'll get?

and please please stop saying may of, its may have

(I know I know)

Badly behaved because of bad rearing/ lazy parenting. Sorry, i know it's it's not PC for me to say that. Most children behave very well when out cos parents have reared them to do so. no one likes a spoilt child. On the other hand he may have ADHD and that is a whole different ball game and your sil will need support.

OP, YAmostlyNBU about your nephew. If his mum isn't at least trying to discipline him it's no wonder you're annoyed.

The comments about your baby's crying though I find a little odd tbh. Not trying to attack you at all, just to help you out! You will be in a situation at some point when you're out and your little one is crying and won't be consolable. She may be very good and easy to placate right now, but that most likely won't last! If you are so worried about what people will think then you're setting yourself up for a lot of extra stress that you really don't need.

My first is only 4 months now, and is mostly quite good when we're out, but in growth spurts can be very grizzly, and he's started teething which is resulting in a more unsettled few days here and there. But staying home so as to not inflict a normal baby sound on strangers is no way to live, and will probably end up making you feel isolated.

I really wish you all the best, just don't put too much pressure on yourself to not have a crying baby. Oh, and definitely don't apologise to your DH when she cries!

Nightowl I would like to thank you and the others, that have said about the pressure I'm putting on myself as its made me realise a few issues.

I've had a long think about some things today and I feel I have some quite high anxiety issues about the way I feel I need to be perceived as a mum. These personal issues have come across in the way I view my DN behaviour. It appears that my expectations are a bit high in some areas but I do also still believe some of it was bad.

I have constant fears that people think I'm a bad mum or that I'm not coping unless my DD is always immaculate, all her clothes, bedding and even muslins are ironed, or if I don't go out without full face of make up, or if someone comes over and my house isn't immaculate. I feel I'm being judged for not being back to my Pre pregnancy weight by other mums at baby club we go to that are size 10. I also think that if people hear my baby crying they think I'm not looking after her well enough. My rational brain tells me I'm being stupid as I don't think other mums aren't coping if their baby cries but when it comes to myself I'm overtly critical.

I apologise to anyone's back I may have got up but now I've had a look at some of my own issues I can see how some of my comments may have ( :) ssd!) come across.

That was really big of you gimmie

Do you have concerns about your anxieties? I'm not one to shout PND for every wobble, but I was quite similar to you in that respect (for example, I was only able to BF for six weeks. I was ashamed of myself and was never seen bottle feeding in public until DD was 6 months because I was afraid I was being judged) My anxiety got really bad and I ended up with PND. Is their someone you could talk to about your issues with your outside image?

Gimme.
I am so glad you have posted again!
I wanted to pm you yesterday as I was concerned about the way you spoke, not only about your dn, but about yourself and pressures you put yourself under.
I had late onset pnd with my eldest and I can relate to some of what you are saying...all his clothes HAD to match, even his vests and socks or it meant I was a "bad mother"
I think a chat with your HV or GP might be a good idea.
Sometimes anxiety can distort our view of the world and I would hate it to spoil this special time with your dd.

...if its any comfort you are a lot more laid back with your second!! ;)

Good for you for saying that OP, nowt like a good ol' AIBU pasting to give you a bit of perspective I've had enough of them in my time! It'll be like water off a duck's back next time.

We all think like that at the start, it'll fade but it never goes away completely, that's why people will always be defensive when it seems as though a child/parent is being unfairly criticised.

The only person who can that much pressure on you is you. It's ok to give yourself a break it really is. It's impossible to be perfect. Being a parent is hard enough, you will fail, often, that's the only certainty. All you can do is forgive yourself, learn from it and move on.

Believe it or not, when you really do fuck up MN is by far the best place to come. There's plenty of us more than willing to share tales of our own mishaps!

And really don't worry about pissing anyone off, only losers hold a grudge

Gimme There aren't many people who could come back on a thread like this and post what you just have. I wouldn't - I'd have gone off in a strop, and I don't mind admitting it.

You're going to be just fine. Really. This is such a "new mum" thing to go through - I think we all did.

The pressures and expectations that society places on mothers is immense. We're all supposed to be glowing madonnas - gazing beatifically at our off-spring, even though they've kept us up all night screaming & squirting shit at us.

Your DD has a mother who adores her. She could have no finer start in life. Hold on to that thought.

Good to hear that you're reflecting on the pressure you're putting on yourself. A pp mentioned the possibility of PND. I don't know a lot about it tbh, but maybe you'd benefit from a couple of sessions with a therapist to help you with techniques for when you are getting anxious. This may head off any potential depression. Nip it in the bud!

Well done for coming back, you sound as if you love your DD very much and really that's all she needs

I also think it is big of you to come back and admit your own vulnerabilities (which can be hard to do).

As someone who has wasted too much of her life trying (and failing) to be perfect at everything... not to let a single thing slip in case someone sees how fragile I really am, I empathise with your last post.

I recommend this book - read the amazon reviews! It is funny but also makes you realise how much pressure Mothers are under to try to be perfect and look as though we're loving every minute.

Good for you Gimme! You are right, you do need to cut yourself some slack. Start by taking the muslins out of the ironing pile!

Sounds like my nephew. He's 9 now and still a pain in the arse. His brother on the other hand has a completely different personality - they've both been brought up the same.

Gimme, I think your anxieties are quite common amongst new mums. Media, our mums, mil, friends with kids, complete strangers...all are ready to weigh in with how you're doing it all wrong etc, as soon as baby pops out. FWIW it's up to you to decide what matters to you, and what you tolerance level is ie what you are prepared to do and not do. After a bit, you stop caring so much, and you just get on with it. Hope this helps!

glad I made you smile op

honestly, one of the hardest things about being a mum is realizing our pfb/stroppy teenager is their own wee person, with their own moods/personality/agenda going on

if we love them, care for them and try to do our best we'll do the best by them we can - the rest is up to them as individuals

you aren't perfect, neither will your baby be perfect, but you're probably perfect for each other and that's all that matters