To not to want to go out with my SIL and nephew

[GimmieChocolate]

Going to be a long one so get your cuppas and hobnobs ready!

My SIL has a 4 year old son who's quite, um, lively. Whenever they come to our house he has to be centre of attention, running around, jumping up and down, generally being very annoying. He interrupts, thinks it's acceptable to demand things etc... He's also the same when out.

This week I met them in town with my 10 week old DD and we went for lunch. Nephew was not only child in restaurant of his kind of age but he was the only one running up and down not sitting in his seat, being loud. We were talking about my DD and he kept saying "look at me, look at me, look what im doing, look at me" as for all of a minute it wasnt about him. He was given his options for lunch which when arrived he had cut into small pieces for him which he then ate with his fingers!! At 4!! There was a pot of mayonnaise put on the table which he just put his hand into, licked and then did same again so no one else could then really have any, and then went to touch my DD. I very quickly stopped him as yes ok I might be a bit pfb, but i didn't want Germy, grubby, sticky mayonnaise hands on my DD! He was then having his drink and flicking the straw around so I kept getting bits of juice flicked at me. I did say to him "you've just flicked your drink on me" and he just carried on. To be honest I did not enjoy the whole lunch. And by the way, the whole eating with hands thing is not unusual, I've never seen him use cutlery.

Fast forward to walking around town, I wanted to get DD a few bits of clothes and when I'd paid for them he just turned and said " can you buy me a present now" I was completely shocked that he just came out with it and said "it's not polite to ask for things" to which he replied "don't be silly yes it is so can you buy me a present" I obviously didn't buy him anything but he went on and on about it until he got into a strop!

We then all went into another shop where SIL got him a paddling pool but that wasn't good enough, no, he had a full on tantrum as she wouldn't buy him any other toys from in there. I was mortifiyingly embarrassed to be seen with them if I'm honest.

She wants to meet up regularly so she can see my DD, her niece, but I really do not want to be out with her DS. That behaviour is quite normal for him and I find it embarrassing and just quite unacceptable for a child to behave. If it was a one off I could understand, but he's like it every time I've seen him!

Am I really BU that I don't want to be out with him?

Are you going to answer the points about the way you speak/thnk about your nephew?

running around and jumping up and down at your house-all completely normal 4yr old behaviour.

No it isn't normal, don't try and normalise poor parenting. Anyones child did that in my house they'd be sitting on the floor until they could sit on the furniture appropriately.

Boggler, to even insinuate that I would ever lay a hand on my child is awful! Just because I have expectations of manners and yes will probably be quite strict with it, why would you ever assume I would hit my daughter? To accuse someone of hitting their child/will hit their child is disgusting and I seriously hope you only meant it as, an albeit very bad, joke?

Jumping, have you been to many four year old boy's birthday parties??!

I do think you need to cut your nephew some slack OP and try and have some fun and play with him when you see him. You sound a little uptight-why would you be embarrassed by a 10 wk old crying?

"As I said in my OP, there were several children of similar age there who were sat at their tables nicely, quietly, not running around."

They were different children. Children are individuals, they develop at different rates.

Not all children will sit quietly colouring for ages. My DD1 will, and has been expected to sit quietly at the table since she was 3 (she's now 4) but I think a lot of that is down to luck.

You keep saying she should have brought him home, but I suspect she didn't want to walk out on her planned day with you and let you down just because her kid was being a brat.

The asking for presents thing is so typically 4 year old - they are only learning about social customs like that.

DD1's speciality at the moment is looking with big hungry eyes at any parent at the park who is giving something edible or potable to their kids.

I'm explaining to her that it's not nice to do that and she mustn't expect other families to have treats for her, but she just thinks that there will be one for her.

4 year olds can be a pita, but they are funny and good company.

You, as the not-Mum can enjoy him as an auntie, if you try and you want to.

Be nice to him, distract him from naughty behaviour, take him seriously, laugh at his jokes.

He's not a baby who can be left in a pram to sleep while you eat lunch (and do you even get how lucky you are to have a baby who does that? :) )

He's a member of the party, so don't just ignore him while you chat. If you only notice him when he is naughty, he will act up when you are around.

You're right about it not being nice to wish ill behaved children on someone but it would be oh so funny if your pfb turned into a tantrum throwing madam at 2. Just imagine being in a supermarket, cafe, sil's house and her starting to scream and generally behave awfully I'm sure your sil who by then will have a quieter 6 yr old will be silently shouting 'yes' as you unsuccessfully try to control the situation. Be very careful about judging others especially when all your experience is theoretical. And yes I think you deserve a few public tantrums if just to make you a little bit more human.

Lost a very long post that pretty much said what Athinginyourlife said, but far less eloquently.

Also, the assumption has been made that SIL wasn't disciplining her DS. Is this the case OP? A few people have asked this. Poor SIL probably needs a hug and a bit of understanding, instead she gets ......

Do come back in 4 years OP. I am still laughing at your assertions of how your DD will behave. Good luck with that.

My goodness some people have very strict ideas on here. All of the 4 + yr olds who have been to our house, friends kids, family, school friends run round and make noise because they are playing and having fun. He is not destroying things or using the OP's sofa as a trampoline and he is being a normal 4 yr old!

Clemettattlee, I'm taking about his bahviour, not that I hate him for goodness sake! Am I not allowed to think he's badly behaved just because he's my nephew? I've done lots of things for him, including arranging a very special trip to part of my line of work, as he's obsessed with this type of job. He got to look at equipment, play and sit in vehicles and got some lovely souvineers including a bit of the uniform! This is something I offered to do as I knew he would like it! We buy him nice gifts at Christmas and birthdays, when he was waking holding the side of pram I told him he was a big help and his little cousin liked him pushing her etc..

Is that ok???

You were honestly 'mortifying embarrassed' to be seen with them? Do her a favour and be unavailable for outings. She can probably sense your judgyness well enough and feels as put off you as you are of her.

Your dd is 10 weeks old op.
Come back when she is 4.
Ok?

Yes. I am thinking the sil in question won't be asking you to go out with them again in a hurry!!

I think he sounds like the majority of 4 year olds, having a bit of an er energetic day.

Jumping, have you been to many four year old boy's birthday parties??!

Too many to count TBH, as I have 3 boys; fortunately the majority of my friends have similar views to me, I don't mix with parents from school who don't.

And I don't have the patience nor the desire to have 30+ coke and ice cream filled little darlings running round my house - that is what church halls are for.

One thing I would say, from 4 all mine were in mini-soccer and swimming clubs. Sport provides structure, rules, boundaries and consequences. Similar parents tend to stick together. Any of those sorts of parents with the foul mouth on the touch line were soon elbowed out - and believe me, I've heard some horrendous stuff of a Sunday morning on the playing fields.

I fall into the let's hear from you again when your PFB is 4.

Actually running around in a cafe is poor behaviour but a general inability to sit still and want to see what is going on elsewhere is fairly standard for a 4 year old.

Eating with your fingers is fairly standard for kids of any age, hell if we're somewhere I think I can get away eating my chips or a pizza with my fingers then I will. In a cafe it's surely not a big deal?

Well, I know you are the expert on all of this, but examples of your labelling language (ie labelling the child not the behaviour) are:
"generally being very annoying"
" as for all of a minute it wasnt about him"

You may think now that panting is all about ensuring that they do as they're told. In my opinion, understanding things like the use of language is much more important and will make you a better parent.

Jumping that's a hell of a leap. You said running around and jumping about were not normal behaviours for 4 year olds but you MUST have seen this at church hall parties (even with your select friends). My four year old is not allowed to jump on furniture at home but he is fearless at a softplay party!

He was then having his drink and flicking the straw around so I kept getting bits of juice flicked at me. I did say to him "you've just flicked your drink on me" and he just carried on

Meh!

normal behaviour my arse in tones of Father Jack from Father Ted

OP, please come back when your DD is 2, 3 or 4 and think you will eat most of your words! I have a 4yr old DD and a 14mth old DS. My DD is impeccably behaved most of the time. Sometimes she is tired, fed up, bored and will do silly things. Yes, my DD wouldn't stick her fingers in a mayo pot and she would have to be reminded to use cultery, but most of the other behaviours you describe are typical of a young child.

I agree with EVERYTHING AThingInYourLife said at 08:56. And sorry, Spuddybean, being a teacher does not prepare you for being a parent. No more than being a midwife prepares you for giving birth, or being a nurse prepares you for illness.

Judge not, lest ye be judged...

OP, I do get where you are coming from. My DD is 2.7 so I'm not really sure what behaviour she will exhibit at 4. She is generally a very good kid and I have boundaries and do discipline when she need it's, but my oh my she's had some pretty special tantrums when out and about. Not regularly but everyone within a mile of her knows about it when she does. She hates sitting in restaurants having lunch. She just wants to constantly run. I have had to take her home early from lunch in pizza express and leave the ice cream we have paid for as she was being such a pita.

I'm digressing...what does concern me about your post is the derogatory tone that you refer to your supposedly DN. Do you not feel any affection towards him? It doesn't sound like you do. I don't have any nieces or nephews yet but I'd like to think that when I do I will want to be a part of their life and not spend my time moaning about them and thinking of ways to avoid them. I may eat my words if I have a monster of a DN though

My DD is 5 and often eats with her fingers.

But a soft play party is an acceptable environment to do that! Someone's home or a cafe/restaurant is not!

Actually Gimme I totally feel the same about my nephew and sister. He sounds exactly like yours but he's 10 now. He's an over indulged only child and I think that has a lot to do with it.

At ten he constantly interrupts adult conversations and will openly contradicts adults even when he clearly knows absolutely nothing about the subject. He is never picked up on this by my sister. He constantly has to be the centre of attention and everything is about him. The thing that upsets me most is that when things obviously aren't all about about him he always creates some sort of drama to ensure the attention is on him.

He routinely spoils my sons' birthday celebrations (which I feel obliged to invite him to because he is family) by pretending to be ill to get the attention back on him (he can't even 'be ill quietly' it involes lots of load moans groans and whining). This year he kept 'falling alseep' accompanied with unnecessary sound effects at the table when my eldest had a birthday family meal. This was due to the fact he'd had a sleep over the night before apparently but again sister and GP kept fussing about him instead.

No I don't like spending time in his company and I can't see that's going to change as his mother (father doesn't get much of a say) thinks he should be at the centre of everyone's universe

Sorry for my last post to sound arsey - laptop was dying and i was trying to post before it did.

I do agree with you that some of the things in the OP is what i consider, and completely anticipate with mine, as normal 4yo behaviour. ie 'can i have a present' type questions, but flicking drink is not acceptable to me. I may not know how i will parent (god i hate that term) but i do know i will never find some things acceptable.

As for running and jumping - there are times and places which i think should be enforced by 4. I remember having a party about that age and one child was jumping across the furniture. My mum said 'would you do that in your own home' presuming that she would obviously say no. But she looked at mum bewildered and said yes, and just carried on.

I also do not think i know how to parent from teaching, but i have seen the longer term affects of those children which have been indulged more than others.