To not to want to go out with my SIL and nephew

[GimmieChocolate]

Going to be a long one so get your cuppas and hobnobs ready!

My SIL has a 4 year old son who's quite, um, lively. Whenever they come to our house he has to be centre of attention, running around, jumping up and down, generally being very annoying. He interrupts, thinks it's acceptable to demand things etc... He's also the same when out.

This week I met them in town with my 10 week old DD and we went for lunch. Nephew was not only child in restaurant of his kind of age but he was the only one running up and down not sitting in his seat, being loud. We were talking about my DD and he kept saying "look at me, look at me, look what im doing, look at me" as for all of a minute it wasnt about him. He was given his options for lunch which when arrived he had cut into small pieces for him which he then ate with his fingers!! At 4!! There was a pot of mayonnaise put on the table which he just put his hand into, licked and then did same again so no one else could then really have any, and then went to touch my DD. I very quickly stopped him as yes ok I might be a bit pfb, but i didn't want Germy, grubby, sticky mayonnaise hands on my DD! He was then having his drink and flicking the straw around so I kept getting bits of juice flicked at me. I did say to him "you've just flicked your drink on me" and he just carried on. To be honest I did not enjoy the whole lunch. And by the way, the whole eating with hands thing is not unusual, I've never seen him use cutlery.

Fast forward to walking around town, I wanted to get DD a few bits of clothes and when I'd paid for them he just turned and said " can you buy me a present now" I was completely shocked that he just came out with it and said "it's not polite to ask for things" to which he replied "don't be silly yes it is so can you buy me a present" I obviously didn't buy him anything but he went on and on about it until he got into a strop!

We then all went into another shop where SIL got him a paddling pool but that wasn't good enough, no, he had a full on tantrum as she wouldn't buy him any other toys from in there. I was mortifiyingly embarrassed to be seen with them if I'm honest.

She wants to meet up regularly so she can see my DD, her niece, but I really do not want to be out with her DS. That behaviour is quite normal for him and I find it embarrassing and just quite unacceptable for a child to behave. If it was a one off I could understand, but he's like it every time I've seen him!

Am I really BU that I don't want to be out with him?

Not meant to be patronising, just hoping to prepare the ground for you. But fair enough, you will discover this for yourself.
Incidentally, I "teach" parenting to expectant parents and facilitate an activity about adjusting your expectations - when I see the same parents a couple of years later, often pregnant with number two, it is one of the things they give really positive feedback about.

He sounds like a normal 4 yr old! To those of you saying you would take your child home if they behaved like this-seriously you would never leave the house! He will be fine at school, i bet he is a very popular boy. Kids like lively fun kids. OP i think you need to appreciate he is a 4 yr old child. If you say anything to your sil it may cause offence.

YANBU but look at it from his point of view. I fully suspect at some point your SIL told him what the plan was. He would have been promised the park; he got lunch and shopping. Yes your SIL probably does need to get firmer with him but even the most polite, well behaved child will have their moments and these moments are usually in the supermarket or a cafe or the doctors surgery or in the queue at the post office while the baby is screaming because he's teething and then you turn round to see the person standing behind you in the queue is an old acquaintance who is currently training to be a social worker. not my best parenting day

Put it down to experience and suggest soft play/park etc next time. And then when your DD is 4 always, always go out with snacks, toys and things that will distract amuse her for moments like that.

Spuddy, I was a school teacher when I had my two. I "knew" how to parent from making judgements about the parenting of the children in my class. The reality is a hell of a lot more complicated. But I will stop banging on about it now because it's something you learn through experience.

The cutlery thing bugs me though... I see many children in the reception year at school (foundation stage) who can't use cutlery and think/wholly expect children to be taught how to use cutlery at school!!

And if anything, when my DS was born, it cemented my desire to have a child with good manners most of the time. I wanted him to be loved by everyone else as much as I love him. That said; I am realistic. I do online grocery shopping (small top ups I take him with me, but I work ft and Tesco on a Saturday is not my idea of fun) and also would not drag him on extended shopping trips; popping in to get a 'few bits' is fair game though.

And YY to needing to take 'distraction aids' like small snacks, toys etc. Your SIL may have been a bit under prepared there, tbh.

Also not meant to be patronising, but it is equally patronising to be passing judgement when you haven't been in someone else's shoes.

To those of you saying you would take your child home if they behaved like this-seriously you would never leave the house

If mine ever behaved like that they would go home. They tried it once at 30mo and 3.5. Straight home from a party. Funnily enough, they didn't do it again.

I appear to be the oddity in that I don't inflict bad behaviour on the public at large, and I wouldnt have any qualms about reprimanding someone elses poor behaviour.

O/T Marginally older, I get mighty peeved at DS3's buddies who come in, think it's appropriate to help themselves, walk around with food, leave the table without asking, look at cutlery as if it's a new phenomenon, and above all, think they can march upstairs and ferret round MY bedroom. Inappropriate behaviour starts by running round restaurants etc.

I was a smug parent with the best behaved child, we would go for lunch with friends and their children would run amok whilst my DS sat perfectly. Everyone commented on how good he was, we were always complimented for his good behaviour and he never had a tantrum.

I was convinced it was my superior parenting skills.

Roll on dd who is now 2 1/2 and a feckin nightmare who runs off, won't sit at a table, throws herself on the ground screaming, her tantrums are something to behold.

Hopefully your 10 week old turns out to be just like my DD.

I agree with Spuddy and absolutely think that it's good for children to do boring things and to learn that the world doesn't revolve around them 24/7. It seems to be a very British thing to make life fun for the child at the expense of everyone else.

I was at an Italian restaurant near Paris (and near Disney) a few weeks ago. It was reasonably busy, lots of families eating. The only children running around were the 4 and 6 year olds of a braying, Boden-clad British party. All the other children (of many other nationalities) were sitting quietly eating. The restaurant staff told the children (and the parents) repeatedly not to let the children run around, because they were carrying hot food and it could be dangerous for the children. The parents took not a blind bit of notice, and when the children did sit down, they found it more fun to throw the food than to eat it. Which was nice for the family on the next table.

"i think it is very patronising when people think they know how you will parent more than you do."

It's not that anyone knows how you will parent.

It's that nobody does. Including you.

There aren't many things more patronising than someone with no children, or younger children, pontificating about what they will and won't put up with.

Until you have had your own 4 year old, an individual with their own feelings and opinions, who isn't afraid of you and doesn't automatically do everything you say, you just sound like an idiot.

I would be very cross with my 4 year old for some of those behaviours. But griping over cutlery and a child looking for attention when there's a baby around?

Wise up.

A lot of 4 year olds don't use cutlery op.
A lot of 4 year olds would not sit nicely in a restaurant for any length of time.
Perhaps a picnic in the park would have been a better venue for a lively 4 year Old? Not sitting in a restaurant with his hands in his lap not speaking til spoken to?
Are you planning to be a Victorian parent?

As I said in my OP, there were several children of similar age there who were sat at their tables nicely, quietly, not running around. I would also reiterate my DD was in her pram asleep for most of lunch, so not actually getting any attention other then glances over to check on her.

I'm definitely going to learn from taking a colouring book or the like for when she's older but I will also take her home if she carried on misbehaving after being told off. How are they ever meant to learn how to behave in public if they aren't reprimanded for bad behaviour and understand it has consequences?

I get embarrassed enough now if my DD cries if we are out or have company over and I take her away from the situation to avoid judgement, so would not want bad behaviour when she's old enough to actually understand. And before anyone says, yes I know it's not bad behaviour at the moment, I'm just trying to make myself understood! And yes my pfb does cry but I usually know why, ie got herself overtired or god forbid mean mummy took her out of the bath, but I can usually plan our day to ensure she doesn't get to a point that she needs to cry as she needs something.

AThinginyourlife, thank you for putting that so eloquently, it sums up what I've been trying to say.

Also, just because I make allowances for my children, it doesn't mean that life is fun for them at the expense of other people. By allowances, I mean I pick certain restaurants and avoid others, get something for them to read / play with quietly, so some chores with them, but also some without as it is much easier.

MrsSF, the parents behaviour in the restaurant was appalling, I'm not sure it is a British thing though. There were probably lots of other British parents in there cringing as well.

I note you say that your DH will not tolerate such behaviour from your dd when she's 4, so what will he do if she acts up in a restaurant because you won't buy her coke, nuggets insert any unsuitable food. Are you going to frog march her out and leave your food, shout and cause an even bigger scene or god forbid smack her - after all these naughty children need a firm hand!

Believe me I dislike almost all ther people's children none of them are as well behaved as mine, but even my perfect ds has been known to not do what I expect or consider suitable, and you just have to grit your teeth and remember that at 4 he's still got a lot to learn as have you about children!

Cut the poor kid some slack he's your dn too!

MrsSchaden child centric does not equate to brattish, and making life fun for your children does not have to be done at anyone else's expense. Mine don't run around restaurants, throwing food or rummaging through knicker drawers; equally I don't impose my desire to spend time buying clothes I don't even really need on them.

The child in the OP was acting up but then he was out with an aunt who obviously dislikes him. I know where I would direct my sighs...

I agree to an extent.
I would take my ds's home if they behaved likemthatnvutnthennagain I go prepared...I take a dsi, a book, colouring pad etc. my youngest is only 3 and gets very bored in restaurants etc.
You get embarrassed when your dd cries?mwhy fgs? That's what babies do!
Ok, if you are in a church service or something, yes, but really?
Maybe your sil is struggling with her sins behaviour? Maybe she was embarrassed? Maybe she needs your compassions and helpnotmjudegment?

My DC have very firm
Boundaries and completely understand that I am in charge. I am a complete Victorian parent, people always comment on how well behaved they are and how strict I can be, often without making the connection! (my expectations regarding behaviour are possibly a little high at times). But, they still misbehave sometimes, because they are human beings and I cannot impose my will on them at all times.

I'd like to revive this thread when your dd is 4. However I dont blame you for being embarassed!

THAT. I don't blame you for avoiding public outings in near future.

Nevertheless, IME, you have a one in four chance of having the same sort of child as your nephew, OP. I could have thought I was a model parent too, on the basis of my other 3. Although one of that 3 is peculiar as all heck about food (in ways that my uptight inlaws admire & approve of, mind).

We have deliberately kept out difficult child away from other relatives (& clubs, and activities) for most of the last 3-4 years. Other kids okay to go visit or participate.

It sounds like SIL could have set more boundaries (did she try to stop him putting fingers in mayo pot or running around in the restaurant?). I can't blame you for finding that frustrating.

It also makes me really sad that you speak of a 4 year old child in the terms you have.
Especially a relative.
You are the adult here.
Act like one.

FannyFifer, I think that hoping someone has a badly behaved child is a bit uncalled for. Why would someone wish that another parent has a bad time with their child? Unfathomable! I would never wish a badly behaved child on anyone.

OP in your original post you complain about your nephew wanting to be the centre of attention, running around and jumping up and down at your house-all completely normal 4yr old behaviour. Maybe you could spend time around other 4yr olds and see he is a normal kid

And OP, cut yourself some slack. At ten weeks old sometimes she will just cry because she is fed up. You can't possibly maintain a life where you are anxious about every cry in public, every public tantrum (because they will come, whatever you do) and every example of less than desirable behaviour as they get older. They are little people, they will not bend to the will of anyone else ALL the time.

My 5 yo dd can use cutlery and has been able to for about 3 1/2 years, yet I have to remind her nearly every day to not eat with her fingers. Just trying to illustrate the fact that to some extent, it doesn't matter sometimes how many times you tell them and how clear behaviour boundries are, it doesn't mean they will always do as you ask. Dd knows when she is misbehaving, but it doesn't always stop her, even after being reprimanded, and I'm not a pushover when it comes to behaviour either.