to want him to stop being so angry

[linioj]

My sister put my brother's details and forged his signature as her guarantor for rent (she suffers from depression). She fell behind on her rent and so he ended up liable and he did pay her rent using the savings he was given on his 18th birthday (this was back in March). He hasn't spoken to her since and everytime its brought he goes into a foul-mouthed rant about how he hates her.

I want him to let it go and forgive her because she has vowed to repay him and she has already started to put money aside to do this, the money he used was money given to him not money he had earnt and then saved. Also if he hated her he wouldn't have paid it and would have had her evicted.

DP says that I underestimate the level of betrayal (I know what she did was terrible) but it really upsets me and it is breaking my mums heart to see the level of hatred and contempt he has for her. I know I'm probably being U and he is only 19 but would it be too much for him to forgive and forget.

I agree with the majority who say depression isn't an excuse to behave like this. At 22 I was hospitalised due to depression & even at that low point I would never have even thought of committing fraud or stealing from my family.

She does know what she's done and is very remorseful and apolegetic as we were all very close before this

which makes what she did all the worst, he must be very hurt,

If she is really sorry, then she should go to police and report herself, may be the first step toward taking responsibility for herself,

I find it shocking that your brother has been made to pay, none of you should of let that happen, very cowedly thing to do, pressurising someone to pay for someone else's wrong doing.

I don't blame your DB for refusing to accept the money at the moment. He must be so hurt and disgusted by it all that he can't bear to let your S make any amends - accepting money will feel like he's letting her absolve herself.

Just wanted to add: why do people tell posters to show real-world people threads from MN?

90% of the population wouldn't give a shit about some words on an internet forum.

"AIBU to want him to stop being so angry?"

Yes, frankly you are being VERY unreasonable. Your brother has every right to be angry. And of course he hates her - I'd bloody hate her too if she'd done that to me. And like him, I would probably have allowed her fraud to stand and not dobbed her in, because she would have gone to jail, been evicted and lost her job, and he is a good person who wouldn't wish that on his worst enemy, let alone a sister he once loved (but now, quite rightly hates).

And what does he get for this stunning level of compassion? His other sister (and presumably his mother too) "want him to let it go and forgive her". So one sister betrays him by committing fraud and stealing from him, and the rest of his family betray him by wanting him to "let it go". By downplaying the devastation he must feel. By dismissing the amount stolen from him because it was a present, he had neither earned nor saved it himself (what the hell difference does that make? He hadn't spent it yet, so he must have had plans for it and the money was HIS!).

And as for all this rigmarole about paying him back - of course he is rejecting repayment right now, because you lot are all making him feel that this entitles your sister to his forgiveness (she's not).

Might I suggest that your sister opens a bank account in his name - she's a bank clerk, she should know how to do this - and pays the money into that account. That way, when he is ready to forgive her - and she'll have to work damned hard to earn it, and accept his current hatred is justified - she can give it to him.

In the meantime, you and your mother have to get your act together and apologise to your brother. You have all behaved towards him in the most appalling manner, and given that you probably make it clear that you want him to "let it go" I'm not surprised " he goes into a foul-mouthed rant about how he hates her". Be grateful that he is not currently including you and your mother in his hatred yet.

"DP says that I underestimate the level of betrayal" - he's right. Listen to him. Then you might not drivel on about would it be too much for him to forgive and forget" , because YES, it bloody well is too much! on your brother's behalf

Are posters on MN not real world people. Images of lots of robots typing away.

hereneia : She is family and it is only money, family is much more valuable
I agree it's only money but family are meant to be the people we trust over everyone else. Stealing from her brother and potentially getting him into trouble has broken this bond.

hereneia : Hating your own sister is a very sad state of affairs.
As is forging your brother's signature, putting him in an impossible situation and effectively stealing from him.

Vivienne: Are posters on MN not real world people. Images of lots of robots typing away.
Why do you say that?

Yes, Sallying. I get that he is upset. I am firmly on his side (as far as an anonymous bod on the net can take sides ) and I get that this is not about the money as much as it is about the betrayal. I said that perhaps he doesn't want to take it because he is not ready to forgive and feels that this will be expected of him. But refusing to take the money is illogical.

Hate is not the opposite of love, indifference is.

Give him time.

YABVVVU.

Your poor brother has been screwed over by someone he loves and trusted. If she works in a bank she can get a loan. Is she a gambling addict too? The more I think about it the more cynical and selfish her actions come across.

I'd have been absolutely furious with any family member who had done this.

Do you see this as theft and being fucked over by your nearest and dearest?
Why did she forge your brothers signature and not your mums or yours btw?

Your brother sounds amazing though.

YABU and if your mum is not supporting your DB in this, I think it is adding to his anger. She should have turned your sister in to the police. She is lucky the brother didn't. She put him in danger of bailiffs arriving at his door, having his credit take a hit. She sounds like a sociopath.

Your DB is 100% right to be spitting nails.

Money and family do not mix even when the transactions have been above board and agreed upon. When the money is stolen from the family member you can multiply that by a factor of 100.

Your sister is not excused from the consequences of effectively stealing from others just because she has depression.

How if the sister had taken the money for drugs? Would it be ok for her to steal for that sort of indulgence?

(If I were the bank that employs her I would be incredibly worried.)

DH's BIL did this to him to get a loan, it took two trips to the solicitors to get the bank to accept that it wasn't DH who owed them £25k. DH has only spoken to his BIL once since then (9 years ago) at his mothers funeral, the DC's don't know that they have an Aunt and Uncle, they have met their cousin but he refuses to speak to his step father aswell. Theft and fraud is a HUGE deal, so don't be surprised if this is it for your sister and brother. Oh and by the way FIL tried to get DH to be reasonable which almost ruined DH's relationhsip with his father.

Vivienne: Are posters on MN not real world people. Images of lots of robots typing away.
Why do you say that?

I said it because further up the thread somebody said they were amazed posters were advising showing the Mumsnet threads to real life people. It was probably a daft response from me. Typed in haste. So sorry for any misunderstanding.

Your sister is a criminal. Your brother is one of his victims.

If your mother sees it any other way, then she is an enabler.

He could have got her into serious trouble with the police. The fact that he instead bailed her out may be down to the family dynamic of enabling her and making excuses for her, which would no doubt have cast him as the villain if he had done so.

So it would not be surprising if he felt betrayed twice over, once by her and once by the rest of the family making excuses for her.

You should all be agreeing with him and giving her the kick up the backside she clearly deserves.

hereneia : Hating your own sister is a very sad state of affairs.
As is forging your brother's signature, putting him in an impossible situation and effectively stealing from him.

I agree that the sister has behaved terribly but she has mental health problems and what good can come from his behaviour?

of courrse he is bloody angry. your sister has commited fraud to steal from him.

he is the victim in this and his family are angry at him for causing trouble. you are making it worse. no wonder he is ranting.

she is bloody lucky he did not go to the police.

your dp is being kinder to him than his on family. thank god he has your dp.

"what good can come from his behaviour?"

It might make his family realise how upset he is by their unjustifiable and selfish demands that he let this terrible betrayal go to make their lives easier.

He could have kept his fury to himself and just cut them all off for taking the side of the sister who fucked him over without a second thought.

Depression is not a Get out of jail free card for thieves.

Herenia, DH's sister and BIL were quite happy for us to be taken to court, declared bankcrupt, try and find the money from elsewhere, I am sorry but in this case family was quite happy to see us shafted and so, no, it is not better.

So next time she is short of money and decides to forge a signature, the fraud may be committed on some misfortunate customer of her bank. This person should NOT be working in a bank. End of story.

lucky she isn't my sister as i would of gone to the police.

I agree with toomuchmonthatendofthemoney, to suggest you should try to make him take the money!!!! That may help a lot, his pride won't.

It does not take away fro him anger though!!

YABU she's lucky he didn't smack in the mouth. She has stolen from him to pay for holiday and bingo habit.

Does it matter if the money was given to him or not? He still bloody paid her debt with his OWN money. His birthday money at that!

You're being so very unreasonable.

You are definitely being unreasonable.

If either of my sisters did this to me I would have refused to pay, and reported the fraud to the police if I had had to.

It's appalling that no one is listening to him and how angry he is. Of course he;s bloody angry!

She should get the full amount together and give him it with a heartfelt apology. She should also accept that he no longer trusts or likes her and so should you and your mum.