To think my brother and sister in law are bad parents?

[Oxygene]

Please tell me if i'm over reacting.
My BIL has two lads (13 & 14)and when we go to our MILs for Christmas, they do nothing from the minute they get up to the time they go to bed but play violent war games on the xbox. Not only is it totally anti social when your supposed to be visiting family but I don't agree that a 13 year old should be allowed to play violent and aggressive 18+ restricted games. You wouldn't allow your kids to watch porn would you?

They can't see any wrong in this. The only time they stop is to go the loo and have tea and even then they're texting while at the dinner table. The kids are rude and anti social. We went camping with them last year and I was shocked to see the eldest lad knocking back bottles of blue WKDs. The mum said it was ok so long as they drank with the family so it could be monitored and they could do it responsibly. So it's ok to break the law so long as it's done behind closed doors?

Their dad is now pushing the youngest boy into the caddets where he's allowed to vent off aggression and play with rifles. Fine, if you want to join the army when you're older but glamourising war and allowing kids to play with guns is something I can't agree with.

On one hand they are over strict with them but not where it matters. They've sent them to private school so they can get a strict education but they seem to be going off the rails and the parents just can't see where they're going wrong.

'I always wondered how they were produced, since no-one generally admits to bringing up their children like this'

geegee, don't you know that parents are not to be held responsible for their children's behaviour?! You get the kids you're given Apart from girls, they don't sound particularly pleasant for anyone to be around but neither do their parents....

"There's only so much I can stand of sitting around watching other people glued to a tv before i'm pulling my hair out. Is it really so hard to expect your children to make the effort to be sociable for a few days?"

Would you object so much if the boys were avid readers and spent the whole time with their nose in a book and didn't join in conversations as a result?

As a child, teenager and even young adult I can remember being dragged to visit relatives or family friends and, after a brief show of interest when I might be asked how school was going or whatever, the adults would sit there and chat endlessly about people I didn't know so I hadn't a chance of joining in the conversation. It was crucifyingly boring. They probably thought they were being sociable but not from my POV they weren't. X-boxes weren't invented but if I had had a book with me and thought I could have got away with it I would definitely have engrossed myself in that.

I don't have any choice to stay at home with my immediate family which is what i'd prefer to do. I go to keep my wife happy as it's her family and it's something they expect of us. I bite my lip when i'm there for her sake. I do try to make the effort to get along and make conversation but it's like getting blood out of a stone and after a few days of everyone sitting around like zombies hardly saying a word to one another, we give up and go out and do our own thing but by doing so my wife says we're in danger of the others thinking we're being rude. So what are THEY then? Even she gets to a point where it starts to irritate her and we have to get out the house for a bit. Even she admits her brother is hard work and we've talked about the excessive gaming and drinking and we both agreed it's not how we'd choose to raise our kids but like others have said, what do we know, we haven't got teenagers. I do however have manners and good standards and this is not how i'd encourage my kids to behave in front of family. Personally I wouldn't care if I never saw the ignorant lot ever again. I'm tired of doing all the running and making the effort when they clearly just want to sit and be anti social. They can't even be bothered to come to see us. It's always us who have to go to them. I'm tired of pampering to such rude ignorant people.

My DS1 is utterly charming to everyone else. He will hold a conversation with you and make you tea.

If you are not around? No so charming atm

The word you are looking for OP is pandering

Oxygene, they sound draining. If you are judgemental then so am I. I prefer to call it exercising judgement though than being judgemental. I wouldn't be into the cadets myself but it sounds way better than what they are doing now.

Oxygene, I don't think you should feel obligated to spend time with people who you find joyless and stressful to be around. I know that's easier said than done, but with every relationship, you need to ask yourself what you are getting out of it as well as what you're putting in. I would seriously think of cutting down the amount of time you spend with this lot - stop doing all the running. You're tired of pandering to them - you may be surprised what a weight off your shoulders it is if you stop doing it. I know with families it's not often just that easy but it may be worth thinking about.

Just because you're blood relations doesn't mean you can actually get along or enjoy each others' company - I'm slowly learning that lesson myself!

OP it is not much fun for teens to go and visit grumpy relatives and a small toddler. That is why they don't visit you.

It does sound as if you have nothing in common with your DW's family, so don't go and visit for so long. Just go for one night (if you must go at all) so you don't get fed up with them.

If they aren't very talkative then take a book to read.

Lots of my friends' boy teens are very taciturn. I am a secondary teacher so know how to persist in making conversation and will not let them escape without them saying a few pleasantries- but it isn't easy sometimes. It doesn't mean they have not been brought up nicely, it means they are at a gauche age.

To be fair OP, the adults do sound rude and boring. Especially if they expect you to go to them and then ignore you.
I'd take a good book

I wasn't being judgemental about the cadets. I realise just like scouts, guides etc that it's great for kids to get out and do something. I was merely saying that if the child is already showing signs of violence or aggression as a result of playing too many war games which his mum has already told us about, then is it really a good idea to encourage this? Their dad takes them shooting (with real guns)and sometimes and I think it's him (my brother in law) that's buying these games for them and encouraging them to take part in violent or aggressive play. It's not something I agree with sorry and I just think by putting him into the cadets might fuel that behaviour. Just sayin'

Drip.....drip.....drip.....drip...

I don't want to give them an excuse to turn it round so it's me that looks like i'm being the anti social one but i'm not gonna sit there for 3 days over christmas and during the summer holidays visiting people and bending over backwards to pander to people who just don't know how to be sociable. I've tried for years to get on with them but i've never known a family so boring and mentally draining in all my life. After a while I always end up going out for a walk or retiring upstairs to read a book but then i'm the one who appears rude.

Even at our wedding they all sat around one table not making the effort to mingle. We tried to get them up to dance but they wouldn't and all night they sat there with faces like smacked arses. Her brother said to my best man, 'how much longer have we got to go before it's we can go home.' What rude, horrible people!

Yes, the parents sound like unsociable people too, so of course the boys are going to be like that, too.

I don't see why you have to visit for such a long time though. Can't you just go the day once in a while, or at most overnight, and then do your own Xmas and summer holidays? I'm not suggesting that you cut them out altogether, and I do see that your dw wants to see them, but you say that she gets sick of it too. I'm sure she realizes that this is not the example either of you want held up to your own child as the normal way to spend holidays; though for quite a lot of people it is, that doesn't mean it has to be like that for you.

Surely you can talk to your wife and limit the holiday visits drastically?

Op, the kids behaviour is normal FOR THAT AGE!! Yours is for your age.

I can't comment on the parents lack of social skills but perhaps they pick up on the fact that you disapprove of their children and don't like them much so they don't like you...

You can pick your friends not your relatives so why don't you stop visiting them. It sounds as if they want this too.

Just to add if you would rather suffer 3 days of their company because you don't want them calling you anti social then how silly is that?? I love my relations but 3 hours is enough,, 3 DAYS,, definatly no no no.

We live at opposite ends of the country and twice a year (christmas and summer) we all meet up at the MIL's and all the kids and grandkids turn up but they've only been to ours once in all these years and they did nothing but moan and complain all the time they were here. Wherever we took them they weren't happy with the food, her mum complained about the wine and her dad tried to tell the landlord of our local pub that the Carling he was serving wasn't actually Carling. The landlord said if it wasn't for the fact we were his regulars, he'd have told my wife's parents to fuck off somewhere else.

We stay a few days because it takes us 4 hours to get there and my wife likes to spend time with her mum and dad. It's the same thing every year. Drive 4 hours, get there, say hello, half of em can't even lift their heads from their phones, laptop, games consol, tv etc to say hello back. We have tea in almost silence apart from the clicking of a mobile phone keypad from the kids then spend the remainder of the evening sitting around watching the boys play computer games, watch tv and try to force a conversation out of people who don't really want to talk to anyone while my wife's mum runs round asking people if they want more food, cake and a top up of wine while everyone else sits there being anti social. It's soul destroying. It's like this for the entire time we're there. By day three i'm climbing the walls.

This just gets worse OP. Your posts are sounding ungracious and mean now.
All sounds very personal and I wonder if you weren't complaining about these boys, there would be something else to moan about.
You only see them twice a year!!!
And you don't come across as very credible in your portrayal of your in laws.
Perhaps you would prefer your wife didn't get to see her family at all?

Oh and your pub landlord sounds wonderful. How tacky of you to slag your wife's family off to him - surely he wouldn't have commented without your encouragement.

I'd be climbing the walls,too. No I wouldn't, I'd bring the paper or a book to read, I mean, why not?
But wait until you have teens before you write them all off so harshly.

I suspect you feel you have 'married beneath you'.

Well it's not my fault is it? I didn't pick them. You don't choose family. I go for my wife's benefit I don't have to like these rude ignorant people.

Basically, OP, you want to stop your wife seeing her family don't you?

They do sound rude I grant you. However you keep saying they are ignorant. You can be rude but intelligent, why do you think they are ignorant?

Mama. It was the landlord who approached ME the next time I went in. I didn't intervene at all. He said he didn't appreciate my wife's mum moaning about their wine when there was nothing wrong with it and her father accusing them that the beer they were selling wasn't what they were advertising just because it didn't taste like the cans of Carling he's used to drinking in the house. They did nothing but moan all night and he said if it wasn't for the fact that we were his regulars he'd have told them to f off. Admitedly not nice thing to say but he didn't actually say it and I can see why he'd think that. Both me and my wife were totally embarrassed and my wife had to tell her parents not to keep making issues. I've never known such rude people.

I am not being personal but I have never met or spoken to a man who sounds like you. Except Frazier crane and he isn't real!!!!!