to be cheering for Andy Murray to loose..

[HappyJoyful]

a set down and I'm beaming...

Well done Andy for yesterday! I thought he played pretty well, gave a good account of himself and his speech after the game was excellent.

Some people just like to hate. Some people will never forgive anything ever. He made a joke, in an interview where he was ribbed. Some media decided to run only the ABE part and not the whole interview. Shame on them. And shame on those who believed it.

So he's not a smiley Nadal, or Fed, the darling of Wimbledon. He's a lad that's done well through a lot of hard work.

Nadal, Fed & Djok, did they beat each other to win their first grand slams?
NO.

Fed beat Mark Philpoussis. Nadal beat Mariano Puerto. Djokovic beat Tsonga.

None of them won their first against each other, yet increasingly it seems Murray will need to. He'll do it and I for one will enjoy the dismay the OP of this thread will feel. :o

Neither are people from England obliged to support Scotland paradise, but we we do anyway. We'd never ever dream of supporting the other side just because we didn't want Scotland to win. That just seems so, so childish?

Anyway, the whole of the UK got behind him. Everyone.
I would hope that Scotland would do the same for an English player.
It's just nice to cheer each other on.

You do realise his remarks were that he would support anyone but the English football team NOT every english person on the planet? I don't see why anyone should support a team just because they are from the same land mass - to a lot of Scots supporting England feels wrong, it would be like being English and being expected to support Germany because they are part of Europe

If Germany were playing America, I'd support Germany out of pure logistics.

If your team are out, you support the closest to you. That could be England or it could be France.

Scotland are next door. We are all part of the UK and for the moment, are governed by the same government. You don't need a passport to visit Scotland, you don't need to learn a new language. We are next door neighbours. Seems a shame then petty squabbling between the two leads to such childish behaviour.

But WHY would you feel the need to support someone? Maybe that's why I don't understand this, I support who I support, if they aren't in a tournament I enjoy it for the sake of it and not pick some other team at random.

There are historical reasons not to support a team, however the vast majority of the increase in ABE can be contributed to the media, and the fact that Scotland are utter pish at football and will never get into the tournament finals anyway but have to listen to references about the England football team no matter what game we are actually watching!

I wonder what the UK would be like if Scotland had ever won the World Cup and the media was more Scotland-centric

The media is more Scotland-centric in Scotland.

I personally couldn't give a crap about sport but I do know that plenty of English sports fans do support Scotland because they are our next door neighbours and they would be pleased if someone closer won the European cup or whatever rather than some other country.

It's like anything in life, if you know someone is in a sporting event then you root for them even if you personally are not taking part.

What's to understand?

Neither are people from England obliged to support Scotland paradise, but we we do anyway. We'd never ever dream of supporting the other side just because we didn't want Scotland to win. That just seems so, so childish?

Well you do, but doesnt mean this is the same for others. Sadly I have seen many English people not supporting Scotland (especially in football) and vice versa. Its just the way the UK is made up - a "British" player in a sport where Britain competes and English, Scottish in football. And then there are just English people who hate Scotland and all things Scottish - Daily Mail love printing anything that will get all the anti- Scots comments flowing sadly, I think Andy is just anotehr casualty of these type of people here.

Ye it is but unfortunately the BBC don't send out separate teams of journalists from Scotland to things like the euros so we have to listen to English commentators banging on about England when commentating on EVERY match.

Put it this way if your next door neighbours kid too part in somethng that your kid took part in and they were better than your kid at it, and their mum banged on and on about it EVERY time you spoke to her I am sure you would get a little bit pissed off and be less inclined to "support" her kid.

Yes maybe it is jealousy, maybe it's a bit sibling rivalry

shesariver - ditto but the other way around.
I have lived in Scotland for a time, my father has lived there most of his life, I am still friends with people in Scotland but even they will type out anti-English comments on Facebook. They way they explain it is that it's nothing personal, they are not against individual English people just England as a whole. Yet some of the comments are bloody nasty and I've been refused service, sworn at and treated like scum because of my English accent.

I know better to know not to taint everyone with the same brush, but I've yet to meet a Scot who doesn't hold anti-English sentiments.

I sympathise with the Scotland TV thing. I'm a Northerner and yes, it does get irritating that everything centres around London and that until recently the only accent you heard on TV was a clipped London accent.

Thankfully times are changing. Scotland, Wales and Ireland now get a lot more coverage. Local journalists cover local events and accents are now trendy. Yes there is a long way to go and if Scotland wants to be independent then I can understand that.

redlac, by coincidence it was ds' sports day today. He came last in pretty much everything. Bless him he tries his best but isn't a fast runner. My friend's ds did pretty well though and I shouted and cheered him on as much as I did for my own ds - and she did the same.
Sure if she rubbed it in about how good her ds was it would get a bit annoying, but if she showed my ds some encouragement and support then I would forgive her this because it's lovely when someone else spurs your child on.

Scotland have so much more to celebrate. Perhaps not sporting wise but at least their kids don't have to pay tuition fees. In fact there's a lot to celebrate about being Scottish and living in Scotland. So next time you hear a report of how students will leave Uni thousands of pounds in debt, you can smile and think it's justice for England having a better football team. Personally I know which one I'd rather have.

shesariver really? I have watched a LOT of football in my life and I have never ever seen an English football fan support Anybody But Scotland. In my (pretty extensive) experience of football, I have never ever seen that happen.

I was in Portugal last month with my Dutch boyfriend watching Holland playing Portugal. Naturally I was supporting Holland and there was much friendly banter and ribbing between us and the rest of the bar who were obviously supporting Portugal. We had a great evening, beers were bought between us etc :o

The only people in that bar who were aggressive and rude were a table of Welsh men. They heard me speaking with my English accent and saw that I was supporting Holland. On that basis and that basis alone, they decieded not only to support Portugal, but also to shout bigotted abuse at me. When I asked them why, I was referred back to an incident from the 17th century. It was so utterly pathetic, that I just laughed at them.

I have also seen a pub of English people cheering on a Scottish side.
I've been one of them.
It happens and more regularly than you might think.

I think Andrew Murray is there for the tennis, and is not into celebrity, he doesn't play the celeb game, that was clear when he made his speech.

For the Andy Murray haters, have a look at this:

It's an interview for Aljazeera that David Frost did in April.

Andy is articulate, open and friendly. But look at his hands and the way he 'fidgets' for want of a better word. Also, how near the end of the interview he pulls the sleeves of his fleece down over his hands. All of it subconsciously.

Murray haters sees a dour grumpy even angry person. I see a rather shy introvert who has a dry line in humour (much misunderstood, thus the stupid reaction to his England joke) who has been up to now a bit of a Jekyll and Hide person on the court (Hide on the court, Jekyll off it). But he is clearly overcoming the Hide-side of his personality since Lendl took over his coaching. Unfortunately, even though he was Hide on the court he has not, even yet, quite developed the ruthless killer streak he needs...but it's coming.Federer for all his apparent grace and charm is a tennis assassin with the biggest killer streak in the game - the iron fist in the velvet glove.

Personally, as someone who has followed tennis since I was a child 60 years ago, I see in Andy one of the most talented tennis players of the last half century - give him a more consistent first serve, a stronger second serve and the development of, for him, an unnatural killer streak and he will win a slam for sure.

I really don't get the Andy hatred.

Oh, I am not Scottish by the way. I'm English.

grimble, I think that's a really good description of Andy Murray. I am really self-concious too, but I come across as arrogant/cold so I can relate to him.

I feel sorry for the guy. He has a typical dry Scottish sense of humour that some just don't get. I don't know why people have to be so horrible about those in the public eye. Imagine how horrible it must be reading awful stuff about yourself.

Also, to all the English who think we're petty for not supporting you, you are being patronising. You can't possibly understand how it feels to ALWAYS be over-shadowed, to be portrayed as being violent drunkards who eat haggis, to have people ask if you have an English passport, to have people ask if your country is an island...

I'm not saying that's the fault of the English (although there's a hell of a lot of ignorance down here about Scotland) but of course it breeds resentment. No one wants to be the poor cousin. And if you aren't, you're never going to understand so saying we're petty is just ridiculous.

grimble Just watched the interview and can see exactly what you are saying. I just wanted to hug the lad I am a bit like that too. Maybe it's something in our make-up.

I'm not saying any more on the subject. I have had my eyes opened, especially with some posters who are not interested in facts, but will just repeat the same old rubbish.

I actually spent some time on the DM website last night, as I was so shocked at the pure hatred and bile being spouted so felt it my duty, in the interests of fairness, to challenge some of the more vicious posts.

Yellowcoat - You can't possibly understand how it feels to ALWAYS be over-shadowed, to be portrayed as being violent drunkards who eat haggis, to have people ask if you have an English passport, to have people ask if your country is an island...

Stereotypes eh. Don'tcha just love 'em? Mind you, I guess English northerners get fed up with thinking they all eat black pudding, race whippets and go round saying "ee bah gum lad"...

And southerners must be brassed off at accusations of being stuck up, unfriendly and existing on G & T....

People from the West Country must resent folks thinking they have grass growing out their ears from drinking too much "zider"

And then there's the Welsh - all rugby maniacs who can sing like angels but are overly fond (shall we say) of sheep...

As for doctors' notes saying NFN i.e Normal for Norfolk - well...

I'm sure you can see where I'm going here

Yellowcoat - sorry mate but bollocks. Some of the Scottish insults aren't just petty and childish, they are threatening and racist and I know this because I have been on the receiving end of many of them. Me, all 7 stone of me at the age of 25 being threatened by a group of men for speaking in an English accent. Being refused service at a bar. Being treated like a scumbag in shops by assistants who were previously joking and laughing with Scottish students. Being told to fuck off back home.

And when I worked for the Red Cross on the borders, our English First Aiders came across tons of abuse. One woman who was trying to patch up a small boy who had fallen and cracked his head open was screamed at by his mother and the crew were told to "get that fucking English bitch off my son before I fucking kill her".

Male friends have been beaten up for walking into a Scottish pub and asking for a beer.

Yet I don't hold any of this against the Scottish. My father has lived there most of his life and I still love the country and the people.

So no, we are not being petty and the blatant racism in Scotland against the English is not petty either, it's downright dangerous.
Yes I sympathise with the Scots, they've been under English rule for generations and I agree that it's not fair. However now there is devolution, Scotland has many of its own laws, the Scots get a much fairer deal on many things now than the English and they can vote to completely separate themselves soon but will that cure the attitude? I doubt it.

As for not understanding - excuse me? I'm from fucking Manchester. We are the poorer cousins of London. I go abroad and people ask whereabouts in London am I from. Does that mean I should hate all Londoners? The North has always come out worse and whilst you can now have your own rules and abolish tuition fees, the Northerners are still ruled by the richer South. We have stereotypes too.

So shove that in your pipe. Your excuses are just that.

can assure you TheRhubarb, if you were thinking I was someone else on another thread, I haven't been goading, gloating or on here since Friday.. the crying post is nothing to do with me, I really have been far too busy in rl and not that sad or bothered I'd do it under a different name if I had had the time to carry on any Murray related discussions!

I actually agree totally with the posters saying it is unfair to knock him for crying - quite totally and utterly ridiculous. To not support him is fine but to stoop that low to mock a passionate, heartfelt, clearly emotional person is below the belt.

And just finally for the record.. I am feeling like a broken one but it's grating me to still read that I started this with anti Scottish sentiment..AmIthatbad, a) I never refered to 'that comment' it's never been the reason I have stated as saying I don't like him.. and b) I didn't say anything about his mother's looks either. Please don't twist things.. though as someone says it was a tad dumb to go on soccer am and do that, it's so not my reasoning for not liking him..

altinkum, exactly!

Geekcool, had to laugh, that's utterly stupid argument to say well he hasn't played x and y and therefore others have had it easier..

grimbletart, I think you've hit the nail on the head - the lack of Murrays 'ruthless streaks' is almost I think what frustrates me and grates on me about him, not entirely sure how's he's supposed to get that more.. is it natural / a learned technique - I wonder how others like Federer have 'got it'.. it's also like Murray know's he hasn't 'got it' ... I have a feeling that was also one of the arguments used to 'slate' his mum, cut the apron strings.

I am also sure he's got a million and one better things to be doing to be reading a couple of rather tame negative posts about him, I'm not in the least bit going to feel we can't express an opinion on a forum about winning or losing incase it upsets someone - blimey - there's a hell of a lot worse said about him out there.

I don't think the argument that he's a sportsman not a tv star comments and how he just wants to get on with his job... that of a very highly paid sportsman whose earnings are surely dependent on tv viewings and sponsership deals etc.. sorry that just doesn't wash with me. My bet is he's received thousands of pounds worth of 'media' training and no doubt has people that do make sure he is able to handle these things, I'm not entirely sure I feel sorry for him on that front.

Er, where did I say it was?
I know the crying post wasn't by you and to the best of my knowledge, I haven't mentioned that on this thread. Are you confusing me with someone else?

apologies, it must have been someone else that referred to spelling and goading..I didn't read properly I just know there was some reference.

Rhurbarb I'm appalled!

I am really upset to hear that you have had such terrible experiences with Scots.

I've lots of English friends and relations both living here permanently and who visit us regularly and none of them have ever experienced what you describe.

Yes to some friendly slagging (not that I'mcondoning that) but your experiences are much worse that that.

Your friend was beaten up for simply walking into a pub and ordering a beer? Where on earth were they? It's not like it's unusual to hear an English accent in Scotland?

I did on the crying thread itself. Not on this one.
I think you have read my comments on the other thread and thought they were on this one

The comments about the mis-spelling on the other one was to point out that they were consistent with a long-time poster who liked to wind people up.

PrettyCherryTrees - Aberdeen.

And dh and I were both subjected to some vile verbal abuse during the World Cup one year whilst we were staying in Fort William.

The Red Cross abuse was largely on the border towns of Longtown, Gretna and so on.

Yes to friendly banter and slight piss-taking, I think we can all handle that. I'm pretty sure not every Scot is like this and I've had positive experiences in Edinburgh and Inverness as well as Glasgow so I know that these are not representative of Scotland as a whole. But I think the excuses that yellowcoat has come up with are pathetic.

Yet another one who thinks that the whole of England centres about the south without consulting their history books as to the treatment of the north.

My friend seen plenty when she lived in England for 8 years with her English husband. The anti Scots comments and abuse she (and her children) received eventually forced them to move back to Scotland, and yes she witnessed a lot of not supporting Scotland at football, it does exist. He does not receive anything like that here because hes English.