For these to be the conditions on which DS (age 6) is allowed to play at someone's house?

[becstarsky]

Just laid down the law to DS about this then wondered if AIBU because this is something that has come up over and over again.... I actually think I might have even posted about it on MN before but can't remember. It's been such a saga.

DS is friends with a kid in his class and they've been friends for two years. Nice-ish kid, nothing much against him. Kid keeps inviting DS to play at his house after school. I've told DS that the child's mother or father has to ask either me or DH if it's okay - and that they have to be known to me. ie. the first conversation we have can't be 'Can your DS come over to mine?'. They have to say 'Oh hello, you're becstarskykids Mum, aren't you? How are you?' and we have to chat and THEN they say 'Wouldn't it be nice for them to play together?' and then we exchange numbers. So that I know them a little bit, just have a bit of a feel for what they're like. And, also the playdate has to be reciprocated - they come over to ours (with kids Mum in tow), or maybe play in the park near ours.

But the family are very strict Muslim and for this reason apparently this kids mum and dad won't speak to me (because I am western female) and kid isn't allowed at our house. I'm 99% sure this is the reason - I know that they speak English. So the invites keep on coming but only via DS from his friend (they are both 6). The kid is very upset that DS hasn't come to play at his house, he has approached me about it at school gates and doesn't understand when I keep telling him that his mum has to speak to me before DS can go to his house and that at age 6, DS can't go to play in a house with people who I don't know.

So firstly AIBU and more importantly - how can I manage this kid's disappointment and DSs disappointment about it? They would love to play together outside of school hours. I alternate between feeling sad for the kid, feeling liberal angst at feeling sad for the kid, feeling exasperated with the kid collaring me every time I'm at the school gates, feeling exasperated with the kid's parents not understanding that it's not reasonable to expect me to send my child into a house where I"m not welcome? And it's been going on for ages.

Thoughts? Flames? AIBU?

MrsTerryPratchett I completely agree with what you said, unfortunately not everybody sees it this way :(

Frankly who cares whether they are Muslim or not - if they blank you & don't show any willingness to interact with you then forget it! Do you think this other mum is worrying about this situation the way you are? I somehow doubt it.

Just tell your son he is a playground friend, his mum doesn't want him to go on playdates, it's not a big issue! Leave it at that.

At your son's age they tend to change friends every other week! Don't sweat these things, and play it down with your DC's.

I wouldn't let my 6 year old child go and play at the house of a family who would not speak to me.

I've been thinking about this thread...and I agree that o wouldn't let my dc go to the house of someone who won't speak to me;; for safety aspects etc

But also, its just a bit of a weird message to ne sending your kids isn't it?

I would not want my DD to go to their household.

If the situation was reversed and you said you weren't going to talk to their family because they weren't Western and because Muslims have committed terrible atrocities against the West it would be racist. They are being racist. I would not want my child going to a house that was quite openly racist and opposed to the society in which they are bringing up their child.

And I have a lot of Muslim friends, some of whom are pretty strictly observant. I have never, ever heard of a female, strict Muslim not being permitted to interact with a non Muslim female.

I think we have to be very careful about the integration/opposition stuff. I am British. I opposed my countries' involvement in both Gulf Wars. Vehemently. Would have happily put up posters, gone on marches, exercised my right to protest.

Now I live in Canada. I am opposed to their involvement in Afghanistan. I pay taxes and am applying for citizenship. Am I not allowed to put up posters, march and protest because I am a foreigner? As far as I am concerned, I pay taxes and will soon be able to vote My DD and DH are Canadian. I feel that since I pay taxes and live here, I am allowed an opinion. My interest and involvement in Canadian affairs should be a good thing, shouldn't it?

When do Muslims in the UK get to voice an opinion? Or do they never get to? Maybe their children do... Or should they also go 'home' if they don't like it?

I think pinkpyjamas has said all that needs to be said.

Fingers and toes crossed for Andy Murray - then I'll be down to the jewellery. Should have been up half an hour ago.

Wrong thread - but Murray has won. Yee ha !!!!!! 11.02pm - never so late.

To add to what mrsTP has said...many Muslims in the UK are British, born and raised, also

That's what I thought crescent.

I have lots of muslim friends, some quite strictly so, and none of the women have been anything less than polite and smiley with me (or at least if I can see their face, but you can still tell someone is being nice with a burqua on!)
I've never noticed the husbands being incredibly reserved, but perhaps they have been and I am just a bit oblivious.

That's why I'm wondering if its something other than religious reasons but social ineptness. It sounds like the DS is a friendly chap and so I'd give the note in bookbag a go.

Any chance the mum is deaf? Combine that with possible shyness and a burka and it might seem like she's blanking you! Or have you heard her chatting aloud with her children. Just thought of that. No great knowledge of deafness so apologies if that is somehow insensitive...

Have read through all of this - all very interesting. Thanks very much to everyone for contributing. It was a bit like seeing my internal dialogue written out by others!

As I mentioned, because of the area we live in, most of DSs friends are Muslim, and lots of them do play at our house, and I'm friends with their mums. So I know that most Muslims wouldn't feel this way about us.

The person who put the idea in my head that this was the reason who was a friend who is Muslim - I'd seen her talking to the child's mum and said that I wanted to invite the son over and that I was having difficulty communicating with the mum. My friend said she didn't think they'd let their DS come to ours, and that they might not want to talk to me. She said that they were a bit funny with her too because she isn't as strict.

I don't see their objection to me as religious so much as political - that they wouldn't want to associate with someone from the group who have persecuted them but my friend didn't say that exactly - that's kind of me adding on to what she actually said. She just said 'Some Muslims are like that. I"m not, but some are.' Of all the explanations I thought of, it was the one that made the most sense for their reaction to me.

I find that the school gate at our school is very segregated. DS is the only child in his class who speaks English as a first language - it was similar at his nursery. But at DSs nursery I had no difficulty making friends with the mums and chatting at the gates. Whereas at this school the Kosovans stand in a group, the Somali stand in a group, the Polish stand in a group - now that is a language thing - but it makes it very hard to break through. They are all very nice, and I have someone in each group that I smile at and pass the time of day with. I think I"m going to start booking more after school activities for DS. DS is an only child so I've always liked him having playdates. Unfortunately some of his friends who he used to play with have moved away, so he hasn't got as many... but I don't want to make a big deal of it - I'll put the note in the book bag but then if they don't call me or show up at the park, I'll get DS into an after school football team etc. At least I'll know I tried.

I really really wouldn't put the note in the book bag. Honestly, you don't want your son being around idiots like that. Why encourage the friendship? It ain't going anywhere

I think, since DS has been friends with the kid for two years, it's likely DS will continue being friends with him at least through primary. The book bag note will only be the one I've posted before i.e. 'going to the park, want to come?, give me a call' - so they can play without DS being separated from me. I'm normally totally happy to drop him off at houses but that's where I know the family and am allowed inside myself.

I wouldn't have anything to do with a woman who blanked me. And he's only 6 and it's reasonable to want to have some kind of chat with people who will be looking after your child. Stop worrying about it. You can't do anything. Maybe one day you could tak your kids and the boy to the park.

Yeah...they can be friends in school. Don't expose your son to the boys nobber parents more than is necessary

Maybe you could suggest to DS that maybe his friend will want to join football club too.
Possibly this will be refused by friend's parents but maybe not.

And hopefullly by the time all the kids have been through primary and secondary the Polish kids are mixing with the Somali kids, Kosovan with the Asian etc etc. I would think sport is a good way to encourage this.

It is sad, and difficult, but sometimes we just have to accept that religion, opinions, shyness, whatever, will have a stronger influence than wanting children to play together and be friends. When I lived in a Muslim country, we lived in a village where most of the population seemed to be pensioners. There was one family nearby with kids, a few the same age as our ds, but despite trying we were never able to make contact. This family were very strictly Muslim. We were Westerners and therefore presumed to be Christians. Other (Muslim) neighbours were able to develop friendships with the family in time, but all our waves and hellos were blanked, the mother used to run in to the house if my dh walked or drove past (not many cars so it was usually clear who was driving down that lane) and she'd turn her back to the road until I had passed. When the children were smaller they'd sometimes wave back but the older they got the more they copied their parents. Shame, as I think ds would have got on well with the kids (always playing the same sorts of games and with similar energy levels ) but there you go, we tried and it was not allowed to work.

welliesandpyjamas - shame it didn't work out for the kids. I find this behaviour, as a muslim woman myself, really shocking to be honest. I do have the attitude that if you don't like it here, then bloody well move elsewhere, especially if you are not going to bother to integrate and behave Islamically, i.e normal and friendly. I find it abhorrent that hellos and waves would be blanked, that's pretty unbelievable and I'd like to thank that family and many muslims in particular for making my life and the lives of other normal nice muslims, even harder than they already were. It really doesn't help us or the bad press we already have in this country when they observe this behaviour and encourage the kids to do the same. I'm not going to rant off too much though I feel like it but thanks to all the mnetters on here that know and understand we aren't all like this, particularly the ones with muslim friends and family who know the real Islam and what it teaches. Feel v sad about all this :(

I think I'd feel the same in your position, stmoritz. In that situation, being the 'foreigners' we didn't want to push it too much after a while, especially as it was evident they were an exception not the norm (all our other friends there were Muslim and very welcoming and kind).

stmoritz there are so many lovely Muslim families like yours - you far outweigh this one. And I suspect that this family might be lovely too - I'm sure they've been through a lot (from Palestine) - and have got their reasons for how they think of me. Agree with Greatauntirene that I hope the next generation having all grown up together will be a bit more integrated.