For these to be the conditions on which DS (age 6) is allowed to play at someone's house?

[becstarsky]

Just laid down the law to DS about this then wondered if AIBU because this is something that has come up over and over again.... I actually think I might have even posted about it on MN before but can't remember. It's been such a saga.

DS is friends with a kid in his class and they've been friends for two years. Nice-ish kid, nothing much against him. Kid keeps inviting DS to play at his house after school. I've told DS that the child's mother or father has to ask either me or DH if it's okay - and that they have to be known to me. ie. the first conversation we have can't be 'Can your DS come over to mine?'. They have to say 'Oh hello, you're becstarskykids Mum, aren't you? How are you?' and we have to chat and THEN they say 'Wouldn't it be nice for them to play together?' and then we exchange numbers. So that I know them a little bit, just have a bit of a feel for what they're like. And, also the playdate has to be reciprocated - they come over to ours (with kids Mum in tow), or maybe play in the park near ours.

But the family are very strict Muslim and for this reason apparently this kids mum and dad won't speak to me (because I am western female) and kid isn't allowed at our house. I'm 99% sure this is the reason - I know that they speak English. So the invites keep on coming but only via DS from his friend (they are both 6). The kid is very upset that DS hasn't come to play at his house, he has approached me about it at school gates and doesn't understand when I keep telling him that his mum has to speak to me before DS can go to his house and that at age 6, DS can't go to play in a house with people who I don't know.

So firstly AIBU and more importantly - how can I manage this kid's disappointment and DSs disappointment about it? They would love to play together outside of school hours. I alternate between feeling sad for the kid, feeling liberal angst at feeling sad for the kid, feeling exasperated with the kid collaring me every time I'm at the school gates, feeling exasperated with the kid's parents not understanding that it's not reasonable to expect me to send my child into a house where I"m not welcome? And it's been going on for ages.

Thoughts? Flames? AIBU?

'I really want you to come to mine, but my dad says I'm only allowed to invite Muslims, & I can only play at Muslim houses'.

How sad for the children. I still find it so strange that there is this whole group of people who chose to be cut off from the rest of society. Why is this? Does anyone know? Because i get the impression its because as non Muslims we are considered not worthy or below them. Is that the case.

I do wonder at moving to a country (not including those born here of course) where you have no intention of integrating.

callisto
JumpingThroughHoops - I would be very uncomfortable about my child always going to another childs house without it being reciprocated. And I would would be rather that the excuse is foor prep. Surely children can play together for an hour or two without food being an issue? (not an attack, genuine puzzlement).

My children are teenagers - in this instance they are 16, the other children have far more gadgetry than I have at my disposal, plus the other children are the youngest, thus have no irritating younger siblings.

It isn't just food prep - it is the touching of anything - eg I would cook bacon and wash the plate in the same bowl as a cup - therefore that cup would be contaminated by association.

YANBU. I wouldn't approach the mum. I have done that in the past as a child has said one of my DC are invited and the parent knew nothing about it. The mum may not know about it maybe the kid has just invited yours without asking. My then 4 year old got invited to someones house once but they spoke no English so I politely declined because my son had special needs and delays and I couldn't even tell them where we lived and what time etc. Not to mention they didn't use seat belts etc. If you don't feel happy then decline. My rule is always that at primary age the parent has to ask me or text me (because kids often make it up or get mixed up) I refuse to mither the parent to ask if my kid can come. I don't mind if I don't know the parent really. I don't let them go it they are little and the child plays out round the town etc either. I also get fed up when people invite my DC very often as it is too much once or twice a week. I also don't always reciprocate although I try to but with 5 DC it is hard to fit them all in. I would make excuses if you are not sure.

Just forget it, it's just not worth the hassle. He probably won't be friends with him soon anyway.

I would say to the boy that your ds is not allowed to go unless his mother or father speaks to you first. Then leave it there.

To venture off topic, to me one of the big problems with the full face veil is that it combines very badly with poor English.
You can cover over a lot of language problems with smiles and nods, and a full niqab needn't be a problem if you have good English and an outgoing nature (unless the other party is hearing-impaired). But the combination of the two is a real problem.

There is no way I would try to arrange a play date with a child whose parents repeatedly blanked me. My ds is also 6 and I would go with the straight out truth: if you want to play with a friend outside school, it has to be arranged by mummies or daddies. Because x's mummy and daddy will not speak to me, you can only play with x at school.

Just have a different friend over.

It is pretty appalling for you to be blanked like this - I wouldn't be interested in the reason. They sound hateful.

poopooinmytoes I think that's a shocking perspective but we live in Londno and our children went to a lovely church school and there were some Muslim families there and the children weren't allowed to mix, they were invited to parties but there was never a reply to the invitation, they were invited to tea but they weren't allowed to come. The school had lots of lovely social activities but the muslim children and their families rarely joined in. Some did, but they were in the minority and much more westernised. It was very very sad and it is very regrettable. It doesn't help with integration, the English families could have done no more to encourage.

Sadly there was a bit of an undertone that they felt they were too special to allow their children to mix with ours. Not sure why because it certainly wasn't socio-economic and the vast majority of white children attended the school because they met the requirements for the heavily oversubscribed church places. The lower percentage of open places were heavily oversubscribed too.

I don't think I'd pursue this family.

If mum ignores you and doesn't acknowledge you then I wouldn't trust my child in her care. If mum isn't allowed to communicate etc you have no idea of how your child will be treated etc.

Marriedinwhite. What is a shocking perspective?

Its the same at my dcs school. The Muslim families just don't reply to the invites, come to events at the school etc which is a shame. I do wonder why they want their children to go to the school at all.

kat I've heard many people say that regarding the Qur'an. Many who do not like westerners reading it and picking at what it says. Anything can be translated.

I live in London and I have either been very lucky, or extremely dense (take your pick ) but I have never come across - at school - any racial or religious bigotry from any source. They all seem to mix in regardless of race, creed or colour. Have to say I don't live in an area with full on veils though; headscarf now and again.

Wow what a thread.

If the mum is blanking you (either because of language or preference) and you are also not happy about your kid going on playdate where you have no feel for the parenets, then maybe this is one of the many friendships that will take place in the school playground.

I have a entire list of kids I want to invite over but won't happen as because I work I have little contact with the parents - and sometimes they don't speak english and sometimes I am too knackered to have a playdate and sometimes I'm so knackered and feel I haven't seen ds that I want him at home. Those playground friendships are fantastic. There's one particular boy who ds has known for 3 years - they are friends but between all our working hours and other playdates or other stuff going one we haven't made that date. But their friendship in the playground is drive by them and them alone and that's lovely.

Invite a different kid round. I couldn't be arsed with messing around and being blanked for the sake of an infant out of school friendship. Let the boy's parents explain why they're putting the dampeners on his fun.

whitewidow That is absolute bullshit. It shows that you really have no idea. There are some words in classical Arabic that have NO English equivalent, you may get something near enough but that doesn't always fit the sentiment. I have studied it myself at university and being a westerner who likes people to educate themselves in what is actually written in the Quran, your argument doesn't stand frankly.

giveitago sums it up very nicely from a practical perspective.

This whole situation is ridiculous and sounds like a lot of hard work for a simple playdate. If the OP bent backwards any further she would have tied herself in a knot. If your DD's friend has asked you for a play date this much, common sense should tell you he's probably done the same to his mother. For whatever reason the parents eg. busy, don't do play dates have not pursued this. Firmly tell both children they can see and play with each other at school. If you remove the issue of Religion as it is neither here nor there in this situation. Who in their right mind sends their child to some ones house when they have not spoke, no exchange of numbers, names etc. On a simple safety basis why would you do this?? Who are you trying to appease. So the kids will be disappointed, so what!!

ShatnersBassoon said it best

This isn't anything to do with the veil or a language problem. Neither of those would preclude friendly contact. For whatever reason, she doesn't want to get involved with you. Sad for the boys but they can play at school

I find this all very odd, as a covered muslim mother myself...I don't acknowledge this to be either normal, acceptable or Islamic behaviour from somebody. If they blank you op and if you haven't truly bothered to try and talk to the parents then just leave it.

Muslims aren't all the same, I'd like to remind everyone. Most of us integrate perfectly. Some unfortunately don't.

exactly

May I add, and I'm not naming any because it's unfair to generalise, that some cultures can be very strict and can also have quite extreme interpretations of Islam where they refuse to speak/be friendly to non muslims. I've come across this before in mild cases but unfortunately it does happen.
Once again, not Islamic at all.
Can I ask what background the parents are, out of interest, op?

I think some people are substituting the word, 'Muslim' for the word, 'people'. I lived in Italy for three years when I was a kid. My best friend was Italian, I spoke Italian and dated Italian boys. I also knew huge numbers of British and other expat people. Lots of whom left Italy not speaking Italian, having no Italian friends and avoiding Italian food and culture idiots.

Foreign stuff is scary to a lot of people. Foreign food tastes weird, languages are hard and it is easier to remain comfortable in your own group. Go to Tenerife, Spain, Portugal and see how great the Brits are at integrating. Pretty shit. We Anglicized half the world over the centuries. Now we criticise others for doing the same.

The parents at the dc's school were largely from Pakistan - is that a culture that is particularly strict. It's very sad, but we just thought them very rude.

I have a Muslim work colleague who's married with 2 kids. My family has been invited a few times round for dinner and we've yet to reciprocate (due to busy schedules really!!) but it's on the list of things to do. I've asked about halal chicken and they've told me where to buy it and generally have expressed positive vibes about coming over. I have no doubt we will have them round.

Interestingly a few months ago we had an impromptu BBQ at ours and 2 sets of family friends came round. Completely forgot that one of the mums was Muslim and served kale fried with bacon!! she ate it because she liked bacon (?!). But so be it. She was fine.

Conversely DS who's 4 has a nursery friend whose parents really don't socialise. They don't turn up to parents evenings, stay around to chat etc (and before anyone flames me, I work full time but have made time for a 5 min chat at pick up Which has resulted in party invites, play dates etc). We've invited said child to birthday things etc (as have other children) and the consensus is that that child never turns up and never RSVPs. so other than at nursery, DS doesn't play with that child. And this is not for want of trying. and this family isn't Muslim.

I don't think you should force the issue. It may be a religious thing. Or a personality thing.

A friend of mine who's got slightly older kids already in school commented that sometimes parents can feel intimidated by other parents. For variety of reasons. Perceived higher/lower class, posh levels, education levels etc.

Have a playdate at the playground. Neutral enough.