For these to be the conditions on which DS (age 6) is allowed to play at someone's house?

[becstarsky]

Just laid down the law to DS about this then wondered if AIBU because this is something that has come up over and over again.... I actually think I might have even posted about it on MN before but can't remember. It's been such a saga.

DS is friends with a kid in his class and they've been friends for two years. Nice-ish kid, nothing much against him. Kid keeps inviting DS to play at his house after school. I've told DS that the child's mother or father has to ask either me or DH if it's okay - and that they have to be known to me. ie. the first conversation we have can't be 'Can your DS come over to mine?'. They have to say 'Oh hello, you're becstarskykids Mum, aren't you? How are you?' and we have to chat and THEN they say 'Wouldn't it be nice for them to play together?' and then we exchange numbers. So that I know them a little bit, just have a bit of a feel for what they're like. And, also the playdate has to be reciprocated - they come over to ours (with kids Mum in tow), or maybe play in the park near ours.

But the family are very strict Muslim and for this reason apparently this kids mum and dad won't speak to me (because I am western female) and kid isn't allowed at our house. I'm 99% sure this is the reason - I know that they speak English. So the invites keep on coming but only via DS from his friend (they are both 6). The kid is very upset that DS hasn't come to play at his house, he has approached me about it at school gates and doesn't understand when I keep telling him that his mum has to speak to me before DS can go to his house and that at age 6, DS can't go to play in a house with people who I don't know.

So firstly AIBU and more importantly - how can I manage this kid's disappointment and DSs disappointment about it? They would love to play together outside of school hours. I alternate between feeling sad for the kid, feeling liberal angst at feeling sad for the kid, feeling exasperated with the kid collaring me every time I'm at the school gates, feeling exasperated with the kid's parents not understanding that it's not reasonable to expect me to send my child into a house where I"m not welcome? And it's been going on for ages.

Thoughts? Flames? AIBU?

So, depends in how devout a Muslim is and what his interpretation of the Qur'an is.

Cheese. No of course not. When the mum told me that her husband made the decisions i wasn't sure if that was commonplace but she told me this was normal for a Muslim family. A couple of people on here have mentioned the wife having to get permission from their husbands as well.

My experience is limited i must admit. I've read a few books and of course know that in some places a woman can not travel without her husbands permission, cannot go out without a male member of her family and various other restrictions. So its not that far to jump to the conclusion that in the household the man makes the decisions.

Of course there will be exceptions, there always are.

I wasn't saying that all Muslim men are abusive but if the culture or religion dictates that a woman must obey her husband then surely that will make "being an abusive twat" that bit easier if the man is that way inclined.

www.islamic-sharia.org/

I found that an interesting website when I went through a phase of questioning things. Especially the marriage part, particularly the Fatwas

'muslim women' are a very diverse bunch of individual mirry, as are 'muslim men's and 'muslim marriages'

I remember watching that program about couples making their wills. One week it was a Muslim couple and they were pretty modern, the woman had a good career etc.

They still needed to stick to what the Q says about where their money goes when they die. There were really strict rules. The wife was very shocked to discover and have confirmed after discussion with their holy man (don't know what they call them) that she couldn't inherit the family assets, they would be passed to the oldest son. They couldn't also be divided equally between all their children because two of them were girls. If the husband died the wife would be taken care of by her son who would inherit, whether she liked it or not.

This always shocked me. Not because of the rules so much but that she was so unaware of how little rights she had to decided own future should her husband die. The job would just be taken over by another man in the family.

So it didn't really matter that on the surface they were a modern family, when it came to important issues like this there was no leeway which is what she was expecting. She was quite upset if i remember rightly.

I know this is off topic a tad. Just find it all rather interesting.

Bejeezus whilst different people, their guidelines for life are very much the same. Following Islam is much of a community thing as well as a religion, it's a full way of life. Especially with the following of Sharia. So it's expected that there will be a social norm that differs from more Western ideals.

This is what the Islamic Sharia Council (which many Muslims consider as THE law and council) says about a woman not having sex with her husband as she has been a victim of abuse

'After this advice, if your wife should persist upon not responding to your sexual needs then you should divorce her. This is because a woman who can not have conjugal relationship should not be married in the first place. '

These people have no chance of an equal and loving relationship if they're being told things like that by those that they see in 'power'.

Many many Muslims do not support sharia law WW....The culture where a person had grown, very much impacts on their faith, as does their family, their education and their own free will.

It seems your knowledge of people who follow Islam is veryuch based on what you have read in books?

Half of it is what I have read, including a translation of the Qur'an itself.

The other half is what I have experienced with my auntie and her inlaws, she married a Muslim man 10 years ago.

And also experiences with Muslim people, some of which are lovely lovely people but still with these views, and some who have been not very nice people.

Have you for example, met a Muslim from Somalia? From India? from west Africa? from Eastern Europe? from Britain? They all live life, in the same way?

whitewidow Can I ask what translation of The Quran you have read?

'After this advice, if your wife should persist upon not responding to your sexual needs then you should divorce her. This is because a woman who can not have conjugal relationship should not be married in the first place.'

I bet my arse that if a man develops erection dysfunction it doesn't suggest his wife divorces him.

Why don't you write the parents a note saying that you would like to invite the kid to YOUR house and hand it to the child. There may be language issues rather than the family being unfriendly.

Aren't there ways of making yourself approachable and trying to communicate even if you don't know the language though? Smiling and not ignoring people when they talk to you for example.

I wouldn't let any child go to a house where I didn't know the parents or the set-up, or whether they would call me if there was an accident/illness etc.

I'm afraid you will just have to tell your son that while his friend would like him to come over his mother obviously doesn't want him to have friends to visit, and they should just play together at school.

This can happen whether there are cultural differences or not.

Watching with interest as dd1's best mate is from a very strict, Muslim family & dad has also blanked all attempts by dh to engage him in conversation. The mum has never been seen at school.

Kids' nanny, also a strict Muslim, whose dc attend the same school & who knows the family well, has confirmed that yes, he really does disapprove of his dd associating with ours & hates the idea of them socialising outside of school hours. She thinks he is a total & utter arse.

It's a bit crap, because both ds & dd2 have best friends who are Muslim & play at ours regularly, & it's hard to explain to dd1 that her mate's parents just do not want to do the whole play date thing.

It's not as if I could fudge the reasons if I wanted to, when dd1's mate is always telling her 'I really want you to come to mine, but my dad says I'm only allowed to invite Muslims, & I can only play at Muslim houses'.

They're 6.

No idea what the answer is, but I feel your pain!

A nice ice-breaker would be to apologise on behalf of white people for Israel, haha! Only joking of course.

It's a tough situation, i agree with the suggestion of taking the young boy back to his mother and explained to them both (even if she ignores you) why your son cannot go to their house.

Also, maybe she's not as hostile to westerners as you think, her son seems to have the impression it would be ok for a white kid to hang out at his house and if his parents are so hostile then i imagine he would understand that it's a big no-no. A lot of muslim families display those posters through societal pressures and may only do so because they would be excluded by some of their more militant relatives/friends if they didn't, they might actually want to integrate more with their white neighbours.

I go to a school where I am one of five white people, the majority of everyone else is Arabic.

I'm really glad their are other minorities because the Muslim women won't talk to me. It makes school very lonely. :(

Not sure if this has been mentioned but for cultural purposes I think the letter should be addressed to his dad or at least Mr and Mrs surname rather than x's mum. Probably also signed by you in a more formal manner too. It might help the situation. As mentioned upthread, the dad possibly makes the family decisions.

Just to add, I live in a predominantly Muslim area and never get blanked by either the men or women. They always let on to me, a white, Catholic female.

I'm not sure which it was, it was a few years ago now. Why?

Beejeesuz Im not sure where the others originate from, but my aunts husband is from Tunisia and only came to England when she married him.

I don't have to meet one from every place. As I've said it's how they chose to interpret the Quran. But the above posts are guidelines that they are told to live by.

Read Diary Of An Arabian Princess, 'Princess Sultana' explains what it is like for her growing up in a state ran by Islam. That's just one place.

Because whitewidow It is very relevant. There are very few translations which are reliable, and all to easy for people to say "it says this, and this" when actually it says nothing of the sort. If you know anything about classical Arabic, then you would realise there are many many words for which there is no actual translation in English or any other language.

it doesn't matter if she is Muslim or not. If she blanks you and pretends she can neither see nor hear you when you speak to her, she is obviously not trying to encourage the friendship between her dc and yours. I could imagine the boy wants your ds to come over but the parents prefer to keep themselves to themselves.

It is a shame for the dc but I think I would leave it.

OP, I have not read the Quran.

One of DS friends is Muslim, the parents have always spoken to me, invited me around along with DS etc.

However, if for whatever reason (religious, psychological or being anti social or in a sect) the parents would "blank" me and not even say "hello" I would have no time for them. And I'd let THEM deal with their son's disappointment.

I'd tell the boy to send his parents over to talk to me.

If they would not, as they'd think I'd be too inferior to speak to, they can get lost. And I would not feel bad about their DS, as it is HIS parents who are the unreasonable ones.

and it is not a language problem, I have lived in lots of different countries, and even if I did not understand, I'd usually smile and nod and shrug in a way to say: "Sorry, no speak your language"