For these to be the conditions on which DS (age 6) is allowed to play at someone's house?

[becstarsky]

Just laid down the law to DS about this then wondered if AIBU because this is something that has come up over and over again.... I actually think I might have even posted about it on MN before but can't remember. It's been such a saga.

DS is friends with a kid in his class and they've been friends for two years. Nice-ish kid, nothing much against him. Kid keeps inviting DS to play at his house after school. I've told DS that the child's mother or father has to ask either me or DH if it's okay - and that they have to be known to me. ie. the first conversation we have can't be 'Can your DS come over to mine?'. They have to say 'Oh hello, you're becstarskykids Mum, aren't you? How are you?' and we have to chat and THEN they say 'Wouldn't it be nice for them to play together?' and then we exchange numbers. So that I know them a little bit, just have a bit of a feel for what they're like. And, also the playdate has to be reciprocated - they come over to ours (with kids Mum in tow), or maybe play in the park near ours.

But the family are very strict Muslim and for this reason apparently this kids mum and dad won't speak to me (because I am western female) and kid isn't allowed at our house. I'm 99% sure this is the reason - I know that they speak English. So the invites keep on coming but only via DS from his friend (they are both 6). The kid is very upset that DS hasn't come to play at his house, he has approached me about it at school gates and doesn't understand when I keep telling him that his mum has to speak to me before DS can go to his house and that at age 6, DS can't go to play in a house with people who I don't know.

So firstly AIBU and more importantly - how can I manage this kid's disappointment and DSs disappointment about it? They would love to play together outside of school hours. I alternate between feeling sad for the kid, feeling liberal angst at feeling sad for the kid, feeling exasperated with the kid collaring me every time I'm at the school gates, feeling exasperated with the kid's parents not understanding that it's not reasonable to expect me to send my child into a house where I"m not welcome? And it's been going on for ages.

Thoughts? Flames? AIBU?

I don't think the park thing will work. She may not be permitted to go to a park without her husband. I think the idea of having an intermediary and your DS going to their house is the only way to keep these children happy!

Becstarsky - interesting problem.

I have several muslim friend, one of whom has become very good friend. Her head is covered, eats halal food etc. We can't communicate well as I don't speak arabic and she doesn't speak english. We speak in (very bad) french. I've asked her about this and she was shocked that someone would use their religion as an excuse for being impolite and not acknowledging you.

Personally, I'd pop a cheery note in the book bag, explain that unless the invitation is directly from the parent then you won't be able to let your DS come over. Include your phone number and tell them you look forward to hearing from them.

Hubby is British but parents born in India. When he was a kid his friend asked to come round for tea hubby said "sure, that's fine".
Friend came over, they played dh's gran gave friend a cup of tea and sent him home.
It was many years later when DH realised what he'd done wrong .

'when I walk past their house they have posters in their windows about atrocities against Muslims committed by the west'

Deadwasp. I don't get it, what did he do wrong?

Poopoo, that's awful, the man leaving his baby to die! However, I'm sure he did those things because he's an abusive fuckwit, rather than because he's a muslim.
That's the thing, you see. I know plenty of religious people who manage to 'follow the rules' without taking them to extremes. Which makes it even more difficult to accept that religion is an excuse for misogyny and abuse. It isn't, but some people try to hide behind it.

Poopoo, I assume the lad was expecting a meal, not a cuppa!

Oh i see!

Fairy. Well yes he was a massive twat! The relevant Muslim part of it though is the bit where the man gets to make all the decisions according to his religion, so it probably makes it easier for him to be such an abusive twat if he so wishes as his wife is told by their religion not to question him.

I think the note in the bookbag sounds fine. We have had a few issues like this over the years with the older 2 dcs and now with DD2. I typically just communicate though the children and then by text. Usually I have said ok well lets go and ask your mum, but the child has told me she can't talk to me/I've asked child why she won't talk to me so we either talk or swap numbers through the children and then text (apparently this is ok).

Poopoo They may have been born here, like me, I live in the UK (I'm not muslim) but still think the west has committed terrible atrocities abroad against muslims. Just because you live in a country it doesn't mean you support all the views and actions it takes, think of the iraq war, most people i know are extremely opposed to that and think it is absolutely criminal what gone on there.

It's sad but at this age their budding friendship may not be possible, no matter how hard they and you support it.

really? poopoo i suggest you go and look up the hadiths where the wives of the Prophet Muhammad sas argued with him etc, and he asked their advice!

and you conveniently ignored the fact that in his religion the muslim man is also told "the best of you are those who are best to their wives" and the numerous commandments to not harm wives, and be good to them etc.

Just go up to the mum and say her son is inviting yours over and what does she think.

That's rubbish poopoo

Its not going to happen is it?
You cant let your child go to a house if the parents will never talk to you.

As a PP said its up to the mother to sort out her son's upset.

I am a bit puzzled though - if they are ultra observant why are they inviting a non muslim child to the house?
Why are they sending their son to a MS school and not an Islamic one. (it sound like you are in a very diverse area).

That just makes me wonder if the ultra observancy is why the mother doesnt speak to you.
This is honestly genuine - are you sure that is why she wont talk to you?

I have never come across it myself. Some of the families we work with are very observant - full covering, no music, dolls without facial features - but the mothers will talk to the me and my female colleagues and we go to their houses.

I thought in a marriage a Muslim husband made the decisions. Is that not true?

Ruby. Who may have been born here? The ones in the op or the couple i was talking about?

Poopoo, only in a small minority of Muslim marriages is that he case, just as it is in a small minority of Christian marriages. You simply can't generalise.

Arseholes are arseholes, you are right nailak.

WRT the playdate issue, the thing that would worry me is if there was an issue on the playdate, how would that be communicated to you? Say DS falls over and hurts himself if the mum can't/won't talk to you, how will this work out?

Other than that, anything that helps DCs have the widest set of friends and the most interesting life is great.

PooPoo I was talking about this post you made:

'when I walk past their house they have posters in their windows about atrocities against Muslims committed by the west'

I find that rather scary!

Why would they chose to live in a country which they feel (strongly enough to have posters up about it) have committed atrocities against those of their religion?

And therefore assumed you are in the post referring to those mentioned in the OP as am I.

poopoo- you can't base your knowledge on all Muslim families on just the one family that you know.

Why don't you invite the mum and her son round. Why can't you make the first move.

and you conveniently ignored the fact that in his religion the muslim man is also told "the best of you are those who are best to their wives" and the numerous commandments to not harm wives, and be good to them etc.

Only as long as the woman obeys them. You chose to ignore that.

No, that is not true poopoo

I understand that muslim women wouldn't be able to talk to men but I always thought they were able to speak freely to non mulsim women. Isnt that the case?

Surah 5:51 "Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah..." Surah 3:28 "O you who believe! do not take for intimate friends from among others than your own people, they do not fall short of inflicting loss upon you; they love what distresses you; vehement hatred has already appeared from out of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater still; indeed, We have made the communications clear to you, if you will understand." Surah 3:118 "O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers" Surah 9:23