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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Man screaming at and rough-handling boy on way to school this morn - WIBU to call school?

242 replies

cfc · 29/06/2012 09:18

I was getting the baby up this morning and her window was open. I heard a guy screaming at a young lad, perhaps about 6 yr's old. He was in his face shouting "just apologise to me, all you have to o is say I'm sorry Sam" so it wasn't his dad. Then he grabbed him by the front of his jacket and lifted him up in front of his face and continued shouting in his face - he also was still smoking with the ciggie hanging from his mouth.

At this point out of my window I shouted at him to stop. He just walked on, but I could hear him continuing to shout but couldn't make it out - he had a proper thick scottish accent (we don't live in Scotland).

I've heard this guy shouting before recently only. Should also mention he was walking with others Inc I think the child's mother. And there were people at the bus stop watching this whole thing. Had I been able, ie not getting a child up, and waiting for the toddler to have his morning poo (he thinks he can wipe his own bum, he can't) I'd have done more.

I think I know the school. I bet they're known to ss. Or I could wait until Monday and follow them to school if dh wouldn't mind getting into work late so i could a- mind the child or b- say to the school admin 'look that family there.

Typos - sorry on tablet.

OP posts:
Passmethecrisps · 29/06/2012 09:54

OP, do you know for certain what school the child goes to? It is great that you are so worried but the school will no be be able to go to SS on second hand testimony so even if they know of the family, SS will not act as they have no firm details from an actual witness.

If you are genuinely concerned for the child's wellbeing you should contact SS directly yourself and give them as mch detail as you can. They may or may not be able to act but it means you can relax a little knowing you have done what you can about something which made you uncomfortable.

Birdsgottafly · 29/06/2012 09:54

"Actually the ones who do awful stuff in private very often have exemplery behavior in public"

No they don't, often reporting is slow, we have had full reports in after the child is on a CP plan and been quite shocked at what has been kept silent.

geegee888 · 29/06/2012 09:54

Good for you OP. A call to the school will do no harm, and its your best way of identifying them. I bet theres plenty of children who would be thankful for your intervention. If he is prepared to do that in public, then who knows what he is doing in private. Again, might just be innocent and a momentary loss of self control. People need to look out for those who can't protect themselves, instead of looking the other way.

GobblersKnob · 29/06/2012 09:54

EekIsItUs I don't think the replies would be that gentle tbh, maybe it you posted that you had lost it verbally, maybe if you had slapped their hand, but if you said you had lifted your child up by the front of their coat and screamed in their face, I think most posters would be suggesting you see your GP and seek help.

EekIsItUs · 29/06/2012 09:55

And that would be great, if that's what they need.
It was the "I think I know the school. I bet they're known to ss" that was a bit Hmm

TheEnthusiasticTroll · 29/06/2012 09:57

possibly amberleaf but I wopuld argue probably most of the vulnerable and neglected and abused children also come from families where there is a cycle of not good enough parenting, neglect and verybal and physical bullying. often without discrimination of where it is exhibited because that is thier only style of parenting.

Birdsgottafly · 29/06/2012 09:57

"but the school will no be be able to go to SS on second hand testimony"

It will be noted and can piture build, as said the school can put CAF's in place if they have concerns, SS isn't always needed.

The CP/CIN reviews take place at the school and information can be passed over, even if second hand testimony. It helps to undo parental lies that cover up what is really going on, or at least allows the child to open up.

AmberLeaf · 29/06/2012 09:58

Soozeedol

Thing is OP has made several judgements that may be clouding her perception of what happened.

Obviously what happened is far from ideal but I agree with the poster who said if someone came on here and posted about 'losing it' with their child.

This has been painted as worse because it was a man, a smoking in front of (assumed step) child man no less.

If this is regular behavior and not a one off I expect that school will already be aware anyway.

WorraLiberty · 29/06/2012 10:00

As I said, I know you mean well but...

You're going to follow this family to school on Monday morning, ring the school when you get home and say something along the lines of, "Hi, I'd just like to report that I saw either a Dad or a Stepdad/Mother's partner, shouting at a boy who might have been called Sam...but then again the man might have been called Sam...either way the guy was Scottish and the Mum had funny hair.

Even if from that description they did manage to identify the child and even if he does happen to be known to SS, I can't see them getting involved because the guy was shouting...fag in mouth or not.

Sassybeast · 29/06/2012 10:01

You, and this little boy, have nothing to lose by phoning the school.

Laquitar · 29/06/2012 10:01

Lifting him by the front of his jacket is not good but shouting at him to apologise is not something i would call the school for. Ditto smoking (outdoors).
My new neighboor is like this. He s got very loud voice, he smokes outdoors but i dont think anything terible happens 'behind doors'. I hear lots of laughing and playing, they seem lovely family.

Ime those who behave like this in public are not doing anything worst at home. It is the ones who worry too much about others who might do.

Anyway, what the cigarette has to do with the rest? Were they coming back from macdonalds? Did they have tatoos?

QuickLookBusy · 29/06/2012 10:02

OP ignore people picking holes in what you saw. They weren't there, you were.

Please phone the school, ask to speak to the HT and tell them what you saw and heard.

PedanticPanda · 29/06/2012 10:02

What does his scottish accent have to do with anything?

starpine · 29/06/2012 10:02

it is possible to shout while smoking if they are smoking a roll-up, it sticks to top lip.someone reported a mother who was shouting at her dd every morning to our local school,the school stepped in right away.some kids have a crap life its not fair.

Birdsgottafly · 29/06/2012 10:03

"If this is regular behavior and not a one off I expect that school will already be aware anyway"

But they need to know if it is carrying on, that is the point of intervention, the behaviour has to stop.

It is the picking up, not the shouting that is the concern. The school will take a description.

bitofcheese · 29/06/2012 10:05

nit picking, wtf does it matter if the cunt had a fag hanging out of his mouth and shouted or not? why would op make it up. actually, you can have a good moan/raised voice AND have a fag hanging out of the corner of your mouth, seen it done a fair few times..

Original poster
cfc · 29/06/2012 10:05

Yes I do know the school the children in the group had the school's motif on their bags. As for people questioning my 'testimony' I am not lying and i amnot embellishing the facts. I posted what I saw soon after I saw it. I heard it clearly from my D's window which is say 10 yards from the pavement, I couldn't make out sll the words as his accent was so thick - as mine can be when. I'm riled.

And i so know what ss deal with, I was the children's advocate at my last firm for a little while and some of the things I read in files and saw in photos will stay with me until the day I die. Which is why I thought about seeing the school, not ss. And also made that clear early on.

OP posts:
Rubirosa · 29/06/2012 10:06

The school don't necessarily need to go to SS. If what they know of this child/family wouldn't meet SS thresholds they can still implement other things to help the family.

Eg. get the parents on a parenting course, access anger management/drug and alcohol services, Homestart, nursery for younger siblings, mediation - whatever the family might need to help them function better.

You can say shouting in a child's face isn't a child protection issue (it might not be) but it's not a good situation for that child and things can be done to improve it.

soozeedol · 29/06/2012 10:07

if I witnessed abuse of a child (and I have) I would be going into the school and raising awareness about it...simple as...I would be trying to feel I'd been of help to the child and not be thinking too much about the horror that might be that childs life...(because it's a very upsetting, awful reality)....

I watched a mother thumping her child so viciously...he was through the air and hitting a wall....she was treating him with such hate and loathing...that child got sent into school following this (actually it was pre-school)...I followed in behind and described what I'd seen....it took me a long time to get over this shock and upset and 5yrs on I still think about that little boy and wonder how his life is now....and just have to hope that raising awareness helped him....

Thats everyones duty of care to everyone else....
Go to the school and try to identify the people and make school aware....

PrettyPrinceofParties · 29/06/2012 10:08

Op said she mentioned the smoking because the boy's face was very close to the lit cigarette.

Presumably, the strong accent would help identify the man, not the op being racist.

EightiesChick · 29/06/2012 10:10

OP, yes, do phone the school. This is by far the best way to proceed because they will know the child and family circumstances and therefore can make a better judgement about whether this is a major concern or not.

Surely if there's any doubt about a child's safety and wellbeing, we should err on the side of 'better safe than sorry?' I think the OP is doing the right thing.

In response to 'what if one of us had done this and posted on here?' - well, I would be grateful for the support, but if the school then contacted me and said someone had reported out out of concern, I would feel that it was deserved and that it was a wake-up call that I had not treated my DC properly.

As for the nitpicking about shouting while smoking - just pathetic.

TheEnthusiasticTroll · 29/06/2012 10:10

I dont agree someone would get lots of sympathetic relies from a post like this either.

I dont think it matters in the sheeme of things what judgemnts have been made the information is there for the teachers and school staff to extract what is relevent and what is not and take the appropriate course of action relevent to what the bigger picture may or may not be with this family.

Original poster
cfc · 29/06/2012 10:12

The child was inches from his face, I was worried he'd burn him by accident. It entered my mind, I posted it.

His scottish accent I mention because it made it hard for me to understand what he was saying when he moved behind our hedge when i shouted at him to stop it.

I'm not hiking up my judge pants because a Scottish smoking man shouted at a chile. I am hiking them up because a man picked up a child of 6 by his jacket with one hand, held him close to his face where a ciggie was and yelled at him in public.

I don't understand why some of you are focussed on the Scottish man/smoking side of things - why would anyone make a generalisation about that person - if he'd done now but walked his child/charge to school?

OP posts:
gymboywalton · 29/06/2012 10:13

cfc-phone the school

every little thing that gets logged helps to build a picture of what is going on in that child's life

it might seem small to some people but if you phone them you will be doing an important and useful thing

Madondogs · 29/06/2012 10:13

I would like to echo everything that Birds has said. I have worked in CP.

Cannot believe that posters say not to report ...this could be the intervention that changes that child's life.

Child protection is the responsibility of the whole of society not just specialised agencies,don't turn your back on this child OP as many are recommending, do what you know is right.