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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel physically sick......

239 replies

frannie1981 · 25/06/2012 21:39

that ITV documentary on now is treating cold blooded murderers as normal human beings. They are showing no remorse but detailing their crimes, I think it's awful they are even being given airplay, done get me started on the perks they have (Christmas dinner) etc. The poor families of their victims is what I think.....

OP posts:
LurkingAndLearningForNow · 26/06/2012 00:45

I'm sorry..You actually believe this system encourages people to murder and rape?

Wow. Just wow. Please, do us all a favour and open a damn book.

ToughTed · 26/06/2012 00:45

u told me i had no experience in physcology so i stated what i had , neither do any of you seem to have experience in it either but you all seem to be allowed your opinion strange how its different for me as it differs from your belief

RubyFakeNails · 26/06/2012 00:47

But surely if you look at the Scandinavian countries and the crime rates there and the style of punishment (don't know if anyone saw a feature in the guardian weekend about a new Norwegian prison, they have zero prison violence!) it shows the effects of being 'nice'.

LurkingAndLearningForNow · 26/06/2012 00:48

I never said I had no experience in Psych. I said you didn't have a basic understanding of psychology, and you told me about your A Levels.

I did the Australian equiv of what you've done and I'm doing a course to become a cop. So yes, I do know a bit about psych. But I never stated my qualifications..I don't consider completing high school one of them.

You can have your opinion, and I can be grateful your views will never be enforced because the general public is more educated than you.

Besides, even most of the ones who say 'yay lets kill them all!' would baulk at laws that compromised everyone's safety.

Empusa · 26/06/2012 00:49

ToughTed Is it really so difficult to understand that it is better for the prisoners to be distracted by TV's/courses/etc rather than bored/frustrated/agitated? Purely from the perspective of the prison guards safety, why would you want them to have to face prisoners who are frustrated? What do you think that will achieve other than making the job more dangerous?

LurkingAndLearningForNow · 26/06/2012 00:51

But it's okay Empusa, apparently my family's safety..Citizens who have decided to do a bloody thankless job and already suffer enough injuries, should actually risk their very lives so the prisoners are bored. But this apparently has no effect on guards?

People always mention their tax..Ever consider how much your tax would rise in what it would cost to hire people to do that job??

ilovesooty · 26/06/2012 00:51

It's not too PC, you're just embarrassingly uneducated

Sounds about right.

I haven't seen the programme but it's repeated tomorrow night.

I work with offenders and I know Tough Ted is talking balderdash.

ilovesooty · 26/06/2012 00:53

And addressing literacy and numeracy difficulties is part of rehabilitation.

LurkingAndLearningForNow · 26/06/2012 00:53

Thank you sooty. I was getting ready to rip out my hair. I don't know why I bother with these idiots but I guess the thought one of these bumbling morons got into some position of power is a fucking bone chilling thought.

ToughTed · 26/06/2012 00:54

im off to bed as we dont agree and i really cant be bothered arguing with people that sympathise with the likes of murderers and feel sorry for them. and by the way GCSE completes high school, a levels are classed as higher education. but i wasnt saying this qualification makes any difference, it my opinion like you are entitled to yours

RubyFakeNails · 26/06/2012 00:54

I fucking hate Gordon Ramsay but (weaklink here) he's doing that show in prison tomorrow at 9:00. Is anyone going to watch it?

ToughTed · 26/06/2012 00:56

ha thats RICH coming from you phahahaa

TheFarSide · 26/06/2012 00:57

A Levels are further rather than higher education, and countries like America would probably class them as high school.

ilovesooty · 26/06/2012 00:58

Agreed: A levels are not higher education.

LurkingAndLearningForNow · 26/06/2012 00:59

This reply has been deleted

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ToughTed · 26/06/2012 00:59

well maybe i should go commit a crime then you might all sympathise with me Grin

LurkingAndLearningForNow · 26/06/2012 01:01

I truly hope you're not a parent. You think it's FUNNY to rub my loss in my face?

You're no better than the murderers you condemn. At least some of them show remorse.

ilovesooty · 26/06/2012 01:01

I think Lurking is right. You appear to be callous as well as dense.

LurkingAndLearningForNow · 26/06/2012 01:02

This reply has been deleted

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TheFarSide · 26/06/2012 01:02

Don't let yourself be provoked Lurking.

ToughTed · 26/06/2012 01:03

that msg was sent before your last one, im not aiming it as a personal thing so dont get why you are aiming everything at me just because i dont believe prisionser should get compassion after what they did?

ilovesooty · 26/06/2012 01:04

No, don't. The emotionally illiterate little madam isn't worth it.

Empusa · 26/06/2012 01:09

This is interesting in relation to this thread..

The Stanford Prison Experiment
Volunteers were asked to take on the roles of prisoners and guards. The ones who were picked were deemed to be the most mentally stable, and none had criminal histories.

"The researchers held an orientation session for guards the day before the experiment, during which they instructed them not to physically harm the prisoners. In the footage of the study, Zimbardo can be seen talking to the guards: "You can create in the prisoners feelings of boredom, a sense of fear to some degree, you can create a notion of arbitrariness that their life is totally controlled by us, by the system, you, me, and they'll have no privacy... We're going to take away their individuality in various ways. In general what all this leads to is a sense of powerlessness. That is, in this situation we'll have all the power and they'll have none.""

I presume this is how you think it should be in prisons ToughTed?

Except this is what happened. Remember, none of the prisoners were actually violent criminals.

"on the second day the prisoners in Cell 1 blockaded their cell door with their beds and took off their stocking caps, refusing to come out or follow the guards' instructions. [... ] After only 36 hours, one prisoner began to act "crazy", as Zimbardo described: "#8612 then began to act crazy, to scream, to curse, to go into a rage that seemed out of control. It took quite a while before we became convinced that he was really suffering and that we had to release him." [...] The results of the experiment favor situational attribution of behavior rather than dispositional attribution. In other words, it seemed that the situation, rather than their individual personalities, caused the participants' behavior."

The other issue with having the prison set up like that is the affect it has on the guards, as other posters have pointed out you will end up with thugs working in prisons. Surely the idea of prison is to deter/rehabilitate/keep away from the public the criminals, not create more?

Back to the Stanford experiment

"Finding that handling nine cell mates with only three guards per shift was challenging, one of the guards suggested that they use psychological tactics to control them. [...] Several guards became increasingly cruel as the experiment continued; experimenters reported that approximately one-third of the guards exhibited genuine sadistic tendencies. Most of the guards were upset when the experiment concluded after only 6 days."

Something else worth considering is that there has (recently) been a prison where the focus was on hardship/punishment.

"When the Abu Ghraib military prisoner torture and abuse scandal was publicized in March of 2004, many observers[who?] were immediately struck by its many similarities to the Stanford Prison experiment. Chief among them was Zimbardo himself, who paid close attention to the details of the story. He was dismayed by official military and government representatives' shifting the blame for the torture and abuses in the Abu Ghraib American military prison on to "a few bad apples" rather than acknowledging it as possibly systemic problems of a formally established military incarceration system."

LurkingAndLearningForNow · 26/06/2012 01:11

I wrote a long post, but that trash isn't worth it. It's as messed up in the head as the people it condemns. At least they're somewhere they're forced to get help.

I know she wouldn't want me to stoop to it's level..It's hard when someone is mocking what happened to her.

You should change your name. Only a coward would mock someone's loss of a loved one behind a computer screen.

For all the various things I've heatedly disagreed with people on things, I've never had someone say something so cuttingly cruel. It is a monster and I pray to God it doesn't have children.

I'm off now, it got what it wanted. I'm very hurt, rejoice.

TheFarSide · 26/06/2012 01:12

Thanks for that Empusa - something any psychology student should be aware of.