To feel physically sick......

[frannie1981]

that ITV documentary on now is treating cold blooded murderers as normal human beings. They are showing no remorse but detailing their crimes, I think it's awful they are even being given airplay, done get me started on the perks they have (Christmas dinner) etc. The poor families of their victims is what I think.....

Thanks Ruby - I have saved that PDF to read when I am more awake. It's a fascinating subject.

My lovely BIL was murdered 5 years ago. Stabbed on the street and left to die there. Wrong place, wrong time. All our lives have changed, us as victims and he (the perpretrator) and his family. It is hard to think of why is it fair that he gets to still breathe when my kind, sweet, funny, loving, gorgeous BIL is not, but my heart broke for his family the day he was sentenced and he was lost to them too, albeit in a different way.

But never ever ever do I want his murderer to be badly treated for what he is has done. I'd rather he focus his time in prison on why he is actaully there rather than the distraction of threats or complaints about poor food. There is enough hardship in not leaving a cell for 23 hours a day; in restricted visits from family; in forever knowing he took a life that was still so full. But I have to accept that he will be out soon as he was only found guilty of man slaughter.
Mentally, how well is anyone who can do so and live a carefree life? These are not people to further push to the ethers of society, noone was born a murderer, talking more and more only educates us to hopefully prevent killings.

Ending someones life is the most horrible terrible unfeeling thing you can do. We as a society has an obligation to behave better than that. How people are punished reflects on us as a society, and it is not in my name that someone should recieve the death penalty. Despite BIL not being here :(

FarSide Your job sounds really interesting? Can I ask what it is that you do?

I've been thinking I would like to get involved with doing something in regards to prisoners (not trivialising what you guys all do) but I have no idea what or how or anything really. Must look into it.

I guess it's like most human key topics, abortion, euthanasia etc etc it all depends on the individual and so many variables. Upbringing, race, mental state, education, religion, political state of the state the one size fits all policy simply doesn't work.

A family friend of ours was in a gang when he was a teenager. He did something awful with this gang, took the fall and spent twelve years in prison. Two weeks after he was out he was talking about how prison was the only life he knew and he wasn't coping. He again did terrible things and now will spend his life in prison.

I believe some career criminals suffer from simply not surviving on the outside world. I actually feel very sorry for this guy. He was put in prison at 18. He knows no other way.

Making prison worse does not work. Look at America, they are treated like animals but reoffending is massive. Rehabilitation is the only answer. I think it's important that people are aware of the Way prisoners live and life in prison, they are part of our society and prison is a social service.

I shall read that Ruby tomorrow. I have often wondered why, going from experience, if prison is bad, why my cousins still reoffended even being afraid of prison.

I have a feeling that it could be lack of education, and falling into the wrong crowds. Especially where drugs are concerned (drugs played a HUGE part in both of my cousins. One of them attempted murder after owing his dealer, and having no cash, begging for drugs and for the dealer to "put it on his tab" and dealer said no. Cousin flipped and beat the shit out of him with a crowbar)

I really don't understand it though. I am grateful that I was young enough to see what mess they was in because of, in my eyes then, drugs so I have always made sure I haven't been even tempted to have even a puff of a spliff.

On that note, I need to go to bed now.

Thefarside I wanted to respond to your question from earlier in the thread.

No I didn't see anything in these men that resembled humanity or anything that made me connect or feel badly for them. I do know of the case of Cyntoia Brown and I feel for her immensely; a child, abusive past, multiple rapes, who was held hostage by a grown adult man who raped her and made her fear for her own life. I saw her documentary and saw her perspective and her utter lack of threat to anyone else.
These men were blank, yes emotionally vacant and lacking in insight. It takes a banal kind of evil to slowly beat a man to death for 2 hours. I suppose the honesty about seeing the positive of his education as a result of someone losing their life is something. They were very honest.
The man who strangled his wife came across to me as one of the most dangerous, he was bookish, polite and quite charming and would be with another Woman. He said to his daughters the parole board were v concerned he may do this again with another partner. I believe he would.

Again no I don't think he and others like him should get to study an Arts degree. I believe in humaine, even self-bettering conditions but feel there should also be an element of hard graft for those who have tortured/murdered other human beings in these circs.

Ruby my current job is in an NHS learning disability team - my actual job is boring (admin) but the environment is very interesting - the team includes psychologists (who assess capacity among many other things), psychiatrists, and social workers. I should point out that not all of our clients are involved in crime - our service provides a range of support to LD clients and their carers. I also had some direct contact with young offenders in my previous job as a careers adviser prior to redundancy.

Thinking about it, obviously some jobs that involve working with offenders require a degree and/or postgrad or specialist training like particular branches of psychology, probation work, some social work, police work, etc. I suppose the other (possibly easier and quicker) way to get into this type of work would be to find an admin or assistant/support role within an organisation which works with offenders - like a housing organisation or charity.

I thought the prison psychologists on the programme had an interesting job but the older one looked a bit careworn! I imagine it can be depressing spending a lot of time with offenders.

TheFarSide. I mentioned this upthread, but my DD has LD and FAS. One of the prisoners' lack of empathy and focus on 'self' reminded me so much of DD (her IQ is 49).

I really wish there had been some insight onto his back story because I'd hazard a guess that it wasn't pretty.

genuine ??????

i can see how a tv etc calms and keeps prisoners more compliant but what i dont get after ed courses etc why is the reoffending so high then

you say all these "extras" help them in reabilitation but how can it if they keep offending still after this extra help

so it dosent sound like it works

i dont get it

Yes shockers it would have been fascinating to find out more about all the prisoners featured. I think not all murderers have had a rocky family history, though, and some might have just inherited some genetic characteristic or sustained some kind of damage during birth.

I'm not an expert, but many of our LD clients are self-absorbed and lack a sense of the other but haven't turned out to be murderers .

Yeah don't give them excuses as well as pandering to their needs.

Surely they have a psychological evaluation beforehand for their defence?

That's very good to know , watching him made me feel a bit shaky.

WW, having some experience of children in care ending up in front of the courts. It generally doesn't seem to matter a jot what they've been though themselves, only what they've done. My experience is limited to just three children, but it was the same for all three of them.

on a not dis similar thread , LORD ARCHER in his defence accused a woman (prostitute) of lying in her evidence against him in court many years ago , he dis credited that woman ,who was later (soon after case)to unexpectantly, die, ARCHER was in fact found guilty , she had told the truth, she went to her death , he to jail and on release, greater things(HAIL LORD ARCHER !)she went to her death without even so much as an apology from this great man , food for thought anyone?