To feel physically sick......

[frannie1981]

that ITV documentary on now is treating cold blooded murderers as normal human beings. They are showing no remorse but detailing their crimes, I think it's awful they are even being given airplay, done get me started on the perks they have (Christmas dinner) etc. The poor families of their victims is what I think.....

I think the other thing people are forgetting with their emotions, is that if you believe in torturing them (and removing stimuli is torture since most notorious murderers in Aus are kept safe from other prisoners. All they have are their books and movies and table tennis with the guard...That means you'd have to be employing people who were capable of torture

WHO, seriously WHO would think hiring the bad guys was a bright idea? Because that's what you'd end up doing.

Agreed Wanna

One of my cousins works in the disabled section of Barwon prison, he says the same thing!

im not capabable of torturing someone hence why im not in prision! i wouldnt class not letting someone play table tennis and playing xbox torture ???

Yes I googled as wasn't aware of "old Carl" a convict who ordered executions. Yes I do think it's contradictory to reasons for supplying such items. If your question was am I capable of such things, then no I am not (understand you would have no problem with me typing this from my cell after an evening playing pool with your relatives, if I was proven to be however). Sensory deprivation may well be torture on one level but to me that level is nowhere near the deprivation felt by loss of someone in such circumstances. I like to think I'm better than that.

It was a very interesting documentary. I feel strongly that prisoners should be treated like human beings: their punishment is losing their liberty and any chance of a 'normal' family life.

As others have said, prisoners are safer if treated decently. I don't see any point punishing people further: some seem genuinely remorseful, and those who don't show empathy are unlikely to change. I must admit feeling sorry for some of them - the man who was so anguished he self-harmed, those who can't explain why they did what they did, the man with Asperger's who 'knew something was different' about him, the man who flipped and killed his wife because she flaunted her infidelity.

Obviously murder is wrong, but it's not always a clear black and white issue.

You're not getting it. If you never saw anyone except a few guards, and you were a raving lunatic, do you think you'd be a calmer prisoner with or without stimuli? t's there to keep them calm. Their minds going. You know, so they don't go extra salty and stab someone with a fork?

Legally, you cannot remove all stimuli from a prisoner. It's cruel and unusual punishment.

I find it disturbing people think we should hire what are essentially legal brutes to 'punish' prisoners.

Let's bring back the stocks while we're at it!

If I were locked in a suite at a five-star hotel, never allowed to go out, my every move prescribed by someone else, no idea what's happening outside on the road, my friends only allowed to visit one at a time and briefly ... I'd be fucking hollering to be let out.

Excuse me but what is your problem? No, despite whatever ridiculous rag you may read, very few high end prisoners have internet access. And it's monitored beyond belief.

f you're not capable of it, why would you be comfortable hiring someone to do it?

You'd essentially be doing exactly what Carl Williams did. Payng people to nflict pain on others.

well dont kill someone! simple....sure the person in the coffin would be hollering to be let out too if they could. ....im sure all of you people sympathising with the murders saying dont be cruel to them would feel VERY DIFFERENT if they took a innocent loved one away from you!

Actually I have lost an innocent loved one to murder. Have YOU?

I don't wish him to suffer because I'm an educated person who understands what being in prison is a bloody horrible thing.

Educate yourself a bit more on how the body and brain work. It might give some of you an idea why prison is the way it is. It isn't just to make you lot froth at the mouth. It's for your safety.

ToughTed, do you really think murderers stop and weigh up the pros and cons before going ahead? Either they firmly believe they're too clever to get caught, or they don;t care what happens to them. You can't be so completely barmy as to imagine they sit and think "Hmm, thirty years locked up in a crappy old building with a bunch of nutters, yeah, I can handle that as long as I get pudding on Christmas Day."

I hatte it when people ask that question. Do you realise how fucking hurtful that condescending 'oh well someone you love hasn't been murdered' bullshit is?

NO. YOU haven't lost someone you loved! I HAVE. So I fucking talked to my cousins and educated myself on the system, instead of believing whatever I read and thinking guards aren't doing their jobs properly.

Gosh, Lurking!

I salute your hard-won, and clearly informed, compassion.

Lifers/ people who are locked up for an indefinite amount do not have bloody Internet access
And your mail is opened and read
And everything is monitored
What you eat/ drink/ when you sleep
And if you are really lucky you see your family for an hour a week
It's a life sentence for everyone
Education gives you a focus rather than other 'sports'
And sensory deprivation is brutal and is used if someone is unmanageable....... To calm you
It may seem like the ritz but you can't go outside......ever
So I don't begrudge a tv or x box ( which incidentally has to be an old one and not wi fi enabled)

ha dont worry yourself about how educated i am! i have plenty of education luv and im entitled to make my opinion! and yes for my safety and all the other innocent people out their they should be locked up for life, not "life in gorverments eyes"

By not capable if, I meant murder. More than capable of restricting luxuries not available to many innocent people who choose not to murder.

I don't share your opinion of the poor little prisoners going through the torture of not being able to get a degree/ keep budgies. my empathy is reserved for those killed and their loved ones who am willing to bet would be subject to such torture to get them back.

Not really with you on the classing me as bad as "old Carl" bit.

I am sorry for your loss lurking and applaud what empathy you show others.
Thank god people like you exist

"OP, the reason prisoners have all these 'luxuries' is to shut them up and stop them killing each other. Calm prisoners are easy prisoners."

I'd never looked at it that way. Makes sense though. I guess making it as unpleasant for the prisoners as possible might satisfy the emotional desire for revenge/comeuppance, but it could make the prison guards job more difficult and potentially more dangerous.

Seeing as it's a job that few of us could do, surely we shouldn't be penalising those willing and able to do it?

sorry for your loss and if anything ive sympathised with loosing a loved one! as i dont think they deserved tthier life to be taken by someone else.its about punishing the person that did it...not that the guards are not doing their job its nothing to do with them!

2 points I want to make.

1). I/my family have lost someone to a brutal and hateful murder. I haven't forgiven the killer and I never will but I don't wish them harm. Being denied their freedom is enough, this is something my family have agreed on.

2). We came to this decision, as well as my view on the death penalty and such because (we) I believe in the concept that as a society we cannot say to hurt another human or make them suffer or take a life is morally wrong and then commit them ourselves. If I say we believe that killing is the ultimate crime, the lowest of the low how can we authorise it to be done. If we as a society say its wrong to kill for money then kill or mistreat prisoners because of the cost we are contradicting ourselves. Society should set and lead by the example, not be hypocritical.

Despite my own family's experience this is something I feel so strongly about, it's shocking to me that people want to mistreat people in such a way.

What are these extravagant dinners? If they get M&S in, I am stabbing my boss up an ting y'knaaaaa.

looked like a right laugh;
free degree courses, further degree courses, budgies, hooch, sewing, pingpong,

PING PONG????

The horror.

Actually, I found it very interesting when I asked 'the question.

What are murderers generally like?

I fully expected 'everyone is different blah blah blah.' She told me they were like kids. I was all LULWUT. Seriously, like kids. Because you have to let them 'manipulate you' into them doing the right thing.

She gave me an example of a prisoner who was spending the week in his cell (yep, thought grounded too!!) they wanted him to talk about a fght that had broken out. When he eventually demanded a book in exchange for info, he thinks he's getting what he wants when in reality they have no problem giving it to him.

They actually do take luxuries away. It's what they do before they put them in isolation. (Which, sorry to disappoint is not that bad. The room depends on the level of prisoner. The worst one is a padded cell with a nailed down bed.)

So they can take away your right to watch a movie and then give it back in order to obtain good behaviour.

If we took these away from prisoners, the only sense of control they had left, can you get more of a picture now how dangerous things could get on their quest to prove just how tough they are? And it's already a pretty dangerous bloody job! There are riots.

im lucky as to not have lost anyone to a crime, and it must be unbearable for those that have and i agree familys whom have lost family should be able to deal with it in their own way and accept want they want to believe in to gain closure. but i dont agree that its classed as mistreating people just because they dont gain free qualifcations or play games ,etc. they wouldnt be in that situation if they hadnt done what they did....people that have said they only get to see their family once a week....how about the vicitims family that will never see their loved one again!