To feel physically sick......

[frannie1981]

that ITV documentary on now is treating cold blooded murderers as normal human beings. They are showing no remorse but detailing their crimes, I think it's awful they are even being given airplay, done get me started on the perks they have (Christmas dinner) etc. The poor families of their victims is what I think.....

I did think that some of them showed remorse and I certainly don't condone any of their crimes but I don't begrudge a telly to a human being who knows they'll never be free again. Being a prison warder on those wings must be so difficult as the men must be walking timebombs.

We do live in a civilised society and as such should treat each person with a modicum of respect, no matter how appalled and disgusted we are by their actions IMO.

I know I sound like a loony liberal lefty but I'm not really, I'm all for harsh punishments. I just don't think that lifers should be hung upside down in manacles.

Yanbu

Reporter: do. You regret what you did?

Offender: yes and no, no because I've now got a qualification in geography and biology and can read better.

Worth kicking that bloke to death then???

Pets in fucking prison?! YANBU.

The man in the Stoke top on at the end said it all really..

So some are saying murder is acceptable if there is an excuse given as to why an individual ended up as the murderer?

Well said Puffin and Almost......
I think if we look long and hard at the American system the lifers there have 'comforts'. Because if they don't they look at other amusements and then I would fear no one would work in prisons/ mental hospitals etc. To have time on your hands with no hope of ever coming out leads to other truly horrific crimes.........
And we are a civilised society

almost a hipster....surely a a patient in hosptial may be terminal and may want a tv, ,,,,o no the nhs cant afford that, but government can for a killer.....hmmm ok. that was an example its not just about a tv. its about the whole system being wrong

of course its not acceptable Its not about an excuse, its about a reason, if you can find out the reason then you can try to prevent them.

eg lots of killers had appalling childhoods full of abuse - so how can we try to prevent child abuse (simplistic but you get the point)

I haven't ever said its acceptable just that i would think its very rare for a human being 'just' to commit a crime........

Or we could do it your way - lets make prisons a horrific experience. No tvs/no pets/gruel/no exercise etc etc.

Great. Done that. Have murders stopped? Oh. No they haven't.

You're punishing the people that did the crime, fair enough, but that's not bringing back the murdered and its not stopping anyone else from committing murder either. Makes a part of you feel better that they're being punished but that's about it.

I find it very hard to believe that anyone thinks, 'I'll go out and kill today, after all prisons not so bad' More likely they're not thinking at all and that's what we need to address surely?

It was very disturbing. The punishment should fit the crime. Kicking a man to death for an hour and a half is not a momentary loss of control. I would quite happily lock up the perpetrator of that particular crime and throw away the key.

Understand point you are making Puffin but vs however many people who have had bad or worse upbringings, why find a way of reasoning with the actions of the minority? As this program showed, it's not always or most often the mentally ill.....

ToughTed Of course the terminally ill should have home comforts provided by the NHS. I would 100% agree with that. And yes, the 'system' is fucked up. There should be money available for a whole range of needs.

What wannabe said

Interesting discussion, got to go to bed but will catch up tomorrow.

And just to totally contradict myself, if they were child rapists/killers I'd happily torture them every day myself. I have a block about being 'rational' about them I'm afraid.

Only read the opening post.

OP, the reason prisoners have all these 'luxuries' is to shut them up and stop them killing each other. Calm prisoners are easy prisoners. I have a few family members who are prison guards. One of them played pool with Carl Williams before his murder. I don't know how they do it, I couldn't. But I think showing people that yes, killers are people too is actually much better than painting them as the monster under the bed. Which is more factual and educational? The one where you see a murderer get thrown in isolation and never let out? (which btw will look nothing like how you're imagining it) Or the one that shows you killers are human too and sometimes people can be monsters?

I believe that's probably the point of the documentary.

"You're punishing the people that did the crime" exactly your point is how it should be! and yes if its life its stopping them commiting murder again, if they "lost contro" once it could happen again, how come all us normal people mangage not to go out and kill someone.....they have taken innocent persons life so why should their right of life not be taken away...no matter if they are evil or mentally unstable either way they are not safe withing society no matter their "excuses" for commiting the crime!

I have to go to bed too sadly....... this is an interesting debate.

I'd also like to point out that even if lifers get release they remain on licence for life which means they will always have to engage with probation and have restrictions on their life and could be returned to prison at any time.

Or, to look at it another way, Butlin's is a bit like prison.

Okay read through the thread.

I don't think people understand that it's actually torture to not give them stimulation at all. It's illegal. So you may find he has a budgie but he is kept in mostly isolation from other prisoners for his safety etc.

A calm prisoner is a safe prisoner. And since the objective is to never re-offend, having them killing each other off isn't that helpful, even if we believe they deserve to die.

Lurking..... So the inmate killer of Carl Williams used part of an exercise bike as the murder weapon, am assuming an exercise bike was supplied as a means to providing a better quality of life for those poor victims of society who we have made killers. Interesting.

I would never advocate taking someones life away based on the fact someone had committed a crime whilst mentally ill..........

Its an illness. Not an excuse.

was torture for the victim i suppose??? and its illegal what they did to be in there! o well one less killer to worry about if they did (joke) im not saying no stimulation for them but i dont see why they should get free quallifications, and more privilages it should be basic

Actually, it's fairly well established old Carl was an inside job. Many people believe it was actually a guard who did it.

I'm glad you actually picked that up, was interested to see if you'd Google him and use that as evidence that prisoners shouldn't be treated humanely.

I don't believe in torturing people. And sensory deprivation is torture. I'm better than those people. I am not capable of doing what they did.

Are you?

I have first hand experience of a unit where children are kept that have committed very serious crimes or are deemed of being capable of.......They are mentally ill and also on the autistic spectrum [so throw away the empathy]

They have a gym, swimming pool and cinema pod.

I thank god we live in a society that allows them to live normally albeit locked down.