To be fed up with my DD having to prop up the less able children

[endlesschatonthecarpet]

OK, I know I probably am being unreasonable and await a flaming! My daughter (in year 1) is very quick, very clever but not blessed with much patience! Because she is one of the top in the class she always seems to be paired with a talk partner who is finding the work more of a struggle. I completely understand that this can be useful sometimes, but it seems to happen every day and some days my DD comes hope very fed up and grumpy because she's had to "waste time". She gets what the task is once the teacher has done the initial set up and is keen to get going. This endless sitting on the carpet with whiteboards talking to another child who is not working at the same level is doing her head in! Now, I fully accept that the teacher has to consider the needs of all the children - not just my precious DD, but couldn't she at least sometimes just send the more able children off to get started while she does a bit more work with the others or pair up the bright children so they can really develop their ideas?

Obviously I've said to my DD that she needs to get on with whatever the teacher asks her to do and haven't given her any indication that I share her feelings about this practice but I do feel really frustrated on my daughter's behalf.
Anyone else feel the same or am I alone in my unreasonableness?

The person I know with dyslexia and IQ of 165 was disruptive in class as a result of a) not having his problems recognised b) not being stretched c) the teachers having no interest as he could just pass exams d) the teachers not knowing how to deal with him

Of course that didn't exactly help anyone else in the class.

He displayed this from the age of 5.

His mum talks about how he used to take things apart at primary school - fortunately one particular teacher realised what he was actually doing. Trying to teach himself how things were put together and how to rebuild them rather than actually being destructive.

In terms of social skills, this guy was very popular. Mainly because he did mess about in class. It was the thing that enabled him to fit in better and be cool inspite of his academic ability.

Its a pattern thats played out throughout his life. He was considered a problem and a nuisance and no one helped him or tried to get to the bottom of what was going on.

People might mock about the OP's daughter being so young, but it depends on the individual. There is the possibility that this really is a big deal and a problem even at that age.

But people laugh about it or think a parent is being pushy.

Can I just add because she/he has said it - that I also agree with JamieandTheOlypmpictorch

If your DD is 'considerably' more able than all her peers she would be better suited to a selective independent school - maybe with a scholership if she's so very able?

Because its as simple as that. And because that is an option for all bright kids. Its not. Even with the best will in the world.

Having two DDs I'm a little uncomfortable with the that it's possible to identify which kids are more intelligent at such an early age. IME every single second child I see is way more advanced than their older sibling was at the same age though the exposure to that older child. My DD2 can appear to be so much further ahead than other kids of the same age and this is nearly always because those kids don't have a sibling and she does. I don't believe she's more intelligent (although obviously she is a genius )

Maybe the OP's child is so bright that there are no other children in the class who are as clever as she is?

I think this thread is a bit doom-laden about clever children. I can vaguely remember feeling frustrated at times in primary school but I got moved up a year when I was 7. Is that an option, OP?

In DS's school, they get children from the older years to help younger children. That would seem to solve a lot of the issues that you describe LeQ in terms of having the vocabulary to explain something. But carpet time is designed to help a child to build that vocabulary and so, while your DD might struggle to articulate her calculations, it's actually doing her some good.

As I said earlier in the thread, DS's school provides extra tuition for children who are doing really well and children who are struggling.

I have no idea whether that's unusual or not but I certainly don't feel that clever children are penalised. Quite the opposite really - because we live in a grammar school area, primary schools are judged on how many of the pupils go onto a grammar so they definitely support those children who are likely to pass the 11+

Neverttoearly - That's my experience with my DSs as well

LeQueen my friend used to play "Beat the calculator" at high school. Couldn't explain how he did it, but he could always beat the teacher working something on the board or using a calculator. Much to the teachers frustration and the other kids amusement/annoyance. He didn't do working out because he didn't need to as it was all in his head. So I do think some kids are just incredibly gifted; doing all the working out, is in a way a step backwards for them. So its really not always useful for them or the other kids to be put together.

The solution the teacher came up with to this particular problem was either to ban him from the class (he had to just sit in the hallway as punishment) or he was allowed to play pokemon in class. Brilliant eh?

OP - I think that talking to your DD's teacher would, hopefully, be helpful.

I was considered a 'bright' child, very rarely struggled at school either academically or socially - I was very lucky in that respect. However, I reached a stage where I was bored with the work we were getting set and started to lose focus and become disheartened so my mum met my teacher and requested more work. Again, luckily for me the teacher was more than happy to push me a bit more both in class and outside of it.

I don't think there's any harm in working with other people in her class occasionally as learning how to work with different people is important, but if as you've said she's frustrated most days then I think finding out from the teacher how your DD's doing and working together on ways to stretch her further would be a good idea.

LeQueen Your DD2 sounds like my DS in maths. He just 'gets' it iyswim? His teacher said she explains something and as she is explaining DS sees some logical pattern, way to do it and bam he's off. I was the same. I remember feeling what the OP's DD feels about having it explained again when it seemed so obvious to me! But then again being 30 odd now and not 6 I can see how the benefits of conforming to that listening and concentrating on someone else talking time is also useful! My DS is actually 4 sublevels ahead in maths than he is in literacy! Mindyou he's a sublevel behind expected in literacy! He doesn't have the best social skills either so there is a benefit to him carefully and patiently working with a partner and maybe helping them understand a concept.

OP - I'm confused about where this thread is going and what you wanted from it. You said yourself from the start you were probably BU and asked what others thought. Many have said yes, YABU, heres the benefits of Talking partners etc and now your saying your DD is 'considerably' more able than her peers.

I think that either:

a) she is just one of those 6yo who has discovered the joys and ability to learn already, that's she higher end of average now in her levels,
b) the school are in fact fab and thats why she's acheiving higher or
c) she is in fact G&T and is considerably ahead of her peers. In which case a selective school may be best. I'm not saying it's easy to get into one but if she really is that great that a quick explanation means she has the solid knowledge and working knowledge of the new skill a selective school would want her.

I stand by what I said and what jamie said though. Talking partners is just 2-3 minutes of a day. It should not ruin the whole school day and you should work at getting her to tell you about the positives of the day as well. There should be 6 hours and 27 minutes of them

All sounds very familiar.

He is very worried about having kids as a result of what happened to him and whether schools will be able to cater for any children he has, if they have the same gift. Which is a very strong possibility.

His parents tried to get his much less able (be still very able - now a doctor) older brother given extra tuition/scholarship at private school. The older brother didn't have the same behavioural or learning difficulties. So when it came to my friend his parents didn't even bother to try, even though he was in even more need of extra support, as they had gone through the process and got nowhere. So naturally that concerns him even more.

He gets very upset as he often unconsciously makes other people feel stupid, as he talks at his level as he respects the intelligence of others and assumes them to be on his level; not realising that its just going over their heads. Its not intended, he just operates at a certain level naturally - his problem is precisely because he does see others as equals and in no way looks down on them. As its so natural to him, he really struggles to adapt to the level of a 'normal' person even though he does have a very wide range of friends with different educational backgrounds. So putting him with anyone with a lower ability at school was never going to help him adjust to their level and it wasn't going to help them as he just encouraged them to mess about. From seeing him, and my own experience I really don't get where this idea of 'helping' the brighter kids really comes from. Its a theory that really doesn't work in a lot of cases.

Although I think my friend is an extreme case, I really don't think hes that unusual either.

youarekidding, it is entirely possible your DS could well be dyslexic like my friend and its not going to get picked up because he's so bright elsewhere - if hes got such a difference between his literacy and maths ability.

My friend does things like trying to use yellow tinted paper or read larger print books as they are things that help. His entire way of learning is very different from other people and he mainly self teaches or just memorises things.

Thanks HmmThinking He has just done the DST that said not at risk. I actually am dyslexic which wasn't picked up until I was 17 because apparently I am (was a ) bright child/person. I use purple overlay!! He has some very poor skills such as rapid naming/ recall etc and is receiving extra help.

Does anyone here watch Big Bang Theory? My friend and I were discussing this the other day in relation to the extremely intelligent and gifted children we have had the pleasure of meeting through our work. I said how the really gifted actually seem not to be taught as they do just learn/ like to seek the answers for themselves but how social situations help very gifted people see that the world can work beyond logic and proof/ theory and how social situations - such as just talking can really help people to otherstand parts of the world they don't naturally view. I love the episode where Sheldon learns 'sarcasm'

I think it's hilarious that people think intuitive mathematical ability with no understanding is better than intuitive mathematical ability and a solid methodological understanding.

Sunscorch Tue 26-Jun-12 21:19:15
I think it's hilarious that people think intuitive mathematical ability with no understanding is better than intuitive mathematical ability and a solid methodological understanding.

Glad you find it funny. But you don't get it. They do have the solid understanding... you can't be that intuitive without that understanding backing it up at some level. Strangely like LeQueen's DH my friend did further maths at a level, physics at university and now has a job which requires a lot of maths.

Talking partners isn't about learning kindness or patience. It isn't about using able children to help the less able. It's about developing verbal reasoning. It's important for all children, including the most able.

sunscorch
What do you call a one eyed dinosaur?
A "doyouthinkhesaurus"
That's what passes for hilarious in my house!

Hawkmoon269 well done you just made me splutter a hot coffee down my jumper with that joke - How have I never heard that one before and the context is pure genius!!

Thank you Sorry about the coffee!

Hawkmoon269 - It's OK no meetings today!! and I keep sniggering...

"It is perfectly possible to have both intuative ability and over time, learn a thorough working knowledge, and methodology. They aren't mutually exclusive, fortunately"

So then why do you think it's a waste of time for your daughter to develop her methodological understanding by explaining it to other children?

Very much agree (again) LeQueen